Is my body just not meant to lift heavy ass weight?

Is my body just not meant to lift heavy ass weight?

when I first started lifting (a few years ago) I remember doing sets of bench with 50lbs (total). now I'm sure a lot of that was form, stabalizers, etc, but even so I doubt it would've been that much higher. Basically my point is that I have very little natural strength. I was always one of the weaker kids in highschool gym class, and I know my dad isnt very strong. Doing squats I could never lift significant amounts of weight (dont do them now because of unrelated knee/back injury). Deadlifts were better, but every once in a while I would hurt my lower back and have to take a break for a few weeks. And now just recently I hit a 5 rep max on bench, and the next day/that night my elbow starts hurting like a bitch. So my point is, I never really had much strength, and when I lift heavy I end up hurting myself. Let me assure you that I dont have horrible form or whatever. So should I even bother going heavy, or just try to be happy with going lighter?

I also have pretty small wrists/bone structure

I was one of the weakest/slowest/smallest kids in high school too. I started benching with 30lb db's. I'm still not nearly as strong as I would like to be, but I'm 50lbs heavier and lifting weight I never thought I would be able to even three years ago... moral of the story -- eat, lift, GFH so your elbow hurts, big fucking deal. You completely glossed over the fact that you hit a 5rm PR. Go easy for a couple weaks, rehab it if needed. If it happens again, figure out what is causing it. Maybe your form is good but you just moved something slightly wrong that time. If you get hurt lifting heavy, figure out when it happens. Don't go to failure EVER if that is when you get hurt. See what I'm saying? Lift heavy enough so you know you REALLY know you are giving it your all... try HST or some other progressive load routine. Maybe that will prevent injury. Bottom line - is it worse to have your elbow hurt for a week or two, or feel weak/small/unconfident/etc for your entire life?

yeah, you make some good points, and that is pobably the road im taking. however, you also brought up another good point. I have a pretty shitty metabolism/fat deposit areas. If I have some chub, I have some bitch tits. And while part of me just wants to eat everything in site and get as strong as possible, another part of me would like to be able to wear t-shirts this summer without worrying about my boobs jiggling around.

What type of lifestyle do you lead? Are you an active person?? The reason I'm asking this is a friend of mine started experiencing some wrist pain after the first couple of months lifting. Basically, what it came down to is, and I hope this doesn't sound idiotic, is that since he had a desk job, and having a relatively low activity level his muscle strength was gaining faster than his body structure causing joint and tendon pain. He remedied this by using a stress ball while at work, and doing some very basic calestenics (sp?) in his apt. Once he strengthened his base structure the pain from lifting all but went away.

velamint I have a pretty shitty metabolism/fat deposit areas. If I have some chub, I have some bitch tits. And while part of me just wants to eat everything in site and get as strong as possible, another part of me would like to be able to wear t-shirts this summer without worrying about my boobs jiggling around. Not everyone can/needs to eat everything in site in order to gain. You are one of them, as am I. The ones that need to do that typically are naturally very lean and do not carry much lbm. The best idea is to figure out what your maintenance calories are, then add about 500 per day to that. Get some calipers and learn how to measure your bodyfat. It doesn't matter if it's 100% right, just that you do it the same each time you check it. Lift fairly heavy and track your progress for a few weeks. If you are getting significantly fatter, lower cals a bit and do the same thing. The important thing is keep track for a while so you know what your body needs in order to grow without excessive fat gain. *note - this is for gaining muscle, not losing fat. To lose fat, read the fat loss sticky. Do the same tracking, but lower calories until you see results. Choose what is more important to you, because you aren't going to gain muscle AND lose fat at the same time. The best you can hope for is gaining muscle without much fat gain, or losing fat while keeping as much muscle as possible.

gstrdr1 What type of lifestyle do you lead? Are you an active person?? The reason I'm asking this is a friend of mine started experiencing some wrist pain after the first couple of months lifting. Basically, what it came down to is, and I hope this doesn't sound idiotic, is that since he had a desk job, and having a relatively low activity level his muscle strength was gaining faster than his body structure causing joint and tendon pain. He remedied this by using a stress ball while at work, and doing some very basic calestenics (sp?) in his apt. Once he strengthened his base structure the pain from lifting all but went away. eh, I'm pretty much your average college kid, I dont think that kind of thing would be causing too much of a problem, although I think I definetely need to up stretching and things like that...I'm actually going into physical therapy soon for back problems too

shastaisforwinners Not everyone can/needs to eat everything in site in order to gain. You are one of them, as am I. The ones that need to do that typically are e time. The best you can hope for is gaining muscle without much fat gain, or losing fat while keeping as much muscle as possible. I know, I know...this is just another thing that complicates this all for me but yeah, I am modifying my diet now and trying to figure out how many calories I need to be taking in, etc

I know, it's a bitch. The plus is that once you do it for a few weeks, it's easy to do almost unconsciously. You start to know the nutritional content of things you normally eat, and can add up what you need in your head. Writing it down all the time is the best way to be sure, but it's a pain in the ass. edit: Put it in perspective though... you're in college. How much more shit do you do on a daily basis that you don't want to? You do it to get ahead. Working out is the same thing.... well, you do it to get head. Either way, you benefit.

shastaisforwinners I know, it's a bitch. The plus is that once you do it for a few weeks, it's easy to do almost unconsciously. You start to know the nutritional content of things you normally eat, and can add up what you need in your head. Writing it down all the time is the best way to be sure, but it's a pain in the ass. yeah, at least theres fitday..I'm pretty much eating the same stuff every day, so it makes it easier

see my edit for motivation

I'd work on lower weights at this time to get your body parts stronger.

Is my body just not meant to lift heavy ass weight?

Noob cutting question

Noob cutting question

Say when I started cutting at 194 lbs, I tried to take in about 1940 calories. Since I have lost weight (at 175), should I take in 1,750 calories now? (I'll delete once answered)

the real question is why are you still cutting at that weight

gsteclipse97 the real question is why are you still cutting at that weight

eclipse is right, but how tall are you?

gsteclipse97 the real question is why are you still cutting at that weight I still have a lot of bodyfat. I realize I should weigh more, but I don't. Most of the fat came out of my legs/ass, and not a lot out of my chest. I'm 6'0 This problem actually has me worried daily, but i'm just trying different shit until boot camp.

if you weight 175 at 6' and are saying that you are fat you dont have much muscle. if i was you i would try to add some lbm

That is a picture of me at 175. I can feel a lot of muscle in my chest, but I also realize that I am not nearly strong enough. My max bench is around 205 at the moment. I am still new to working out and I see new gains pretty quick, but the problem still stands. Couldn't I cut about 10 more lbs of bodyfat then just keep having gains and get bigger like that? (Sorry, I am so noob at this, it is embarrassing.) I would really appreciate any help I can get. I don't want to fuck this up!

you dont look that fat. you would look a lot more solid if you added 10lbs of lbm over cutting 10lbs of fat in my opinion

I was more under the impression of calories in is more a 11-12xbodyweight, but you do adjust to the weightloss.

gsteclipse97 you dont look that fat. you would look a lot more solid if you added 10lbs of lbm over cutting 10lbs of fat in my opinion Should I up my calorie intake (God that would be nice) but keep doing cardio in the morning for fat loss? (Just like 12 minutes of fast pace walking)

Socrates Should I up my calorie intake (God that would be nice) but keep doing cardio in the morning for fat loss? (Just like 12 minutes of fast pace walking) i would up it. lift and do cardio like 3xweek at 30 min medium pace. my opinion

gsteclipse97 i would up it. lift and do cardio like 3xweek at 30 min medium pace. my opinion Alright, i'll try that. I'll try to bump it up to around 2300-2400 calories a day (shit ton of a protein) and keep lifting.

Noob cutting question

bioelectrical body composition

bioelectrical body composition

Theres a college coming to my gym doing bioelectrical body composition tests for 2 dollars, is this the same shit as though trashy bodyfat scales, or is a little more accurate, the real question is would it be worth the two dollars, it says the procedure takes 5 minutes, if it was just the scale I'd think it'd only take 5 seconds

Maybe they put electrodes on various body parts... kind of like the multiple point caliper test?

most of the ones you grip or stand on all ask for age/height etc. There not doing shit other then a math equation and making you think there using electricity. My gym had a really expensive one and I was a 6 pinch calipered 4% 3 days from a show and this thing read me at 11%. CRAP!!!!!!

it's just two bucks dude

well, i would think they could calculate the resistance of your boddy, but thus us not accurate, as skin is less resistave than fat, i believe.

nic379 it's just two bucks dude the man has a point

PurEvl the man has a point man?

nic379 man? oh crap...that was before the other post i think...im on 25 carbs give me some slack here

PurEvl oh crap...that was before the other post i think...im on 25 carbs give me some slack here it's cool i'm having a shitty day as well

Well true, but if it's as shitty as the scale it's not worth two cents or the time

How effective, are soundwaves for judging bodyfat? My roommate said thats what they used when he was swimming, it said he was 4% with 0 abs showing.

PurEvl most of the ones you grip or stand on all ask for age/height etc. There not doing shit other then a math equation and making you think there using electricity. My gym had a really expensive one and I was a 6 pinch calipered 4% 3 days from a show and this thing read me at 11%. CRAP!!!!!! Your bodyweight and height and age effect the equation used in figuring your body composition, the electrical signal isnt' everything. My college gym had a handheld electrical thing. Just slightly changing how strongly i gripped would throw the readings off a few percent. Getting my hands wet before using it would really fuck things up

drunknmunky How effective, are soundwaves for judging bodyfat? My roommate said thats what they used when he was swimming, it said he was 4% with 0 abs showing. No dunk tank, no care.

bioelectrical body composition

So is there any physiologic benefit to a cheat day every week or so?

So is there any physiologic benefit to a cheat day every week or so?

Anything at all? Glycogen refill? Trcik your body into thinking you're in a surplus?

depends on how long the cheat day/refeed is, as well as how long/hard you've been dieting, how long since your last refeed, how low your bodyfat is, etc

theres psychological benefits, like sanity. ha

Perplexed is that a westside bodybuilding routine or what? no i think it would be defined as more of what most uf us less strong people should be doing. That is almost exactly how i do it

So is there any physiologic benefit to a cheat day every week or so?

Fast, Medium and Slow Protein Questions

Fast, Medium and Slow Protein Questions

alright, so I got the BV index infront of me, along with the amino acid score sheet. Now, what I need to know is if there is anyway to tell how fast the protein will be absorbed by observing these numbers? If I were to guess, the higher the BV, the faster it is absorbed and the lower the BV the slower it is absorbed, right? One last question, in a meal, what % of protein should be "fast", "medium" and "slow"? This is assuming that we are eating the 6 meals a day.

holy fuck....

HOLY SHIT DUDE!lc stop asking questions and start lifting and eating. you are 140lbs. eat and lift

wait, so if I were jewish, should I stay away from the protein in German Bratwurst?

shastaisforwinners wait, so if I were jewish, should I stay away from the protein in German Bratwurst? it'd probably be a good idea



and I thought I was bad

read the protein sticky

www.bodybuilding.com

shastaisforwinners wait, so if I were jewish, should I stay away from the protein in German Bratwurst? dont be silly, jews cant eat bratwurst edit: come to think of it, it probably isnt kosher neway

christophers this is a tricky question. the speed of protein you need is highly dependant on a variety of factors. sensitivity to light, sensitivity to animal protein, how long it's been on a plate, how long it's been microwaved, the total weight, your total weight, your bodyfat. hair color can also play a role as studies show the color of your hair, pubic hair, or eyebrow hair plays a significant role in the absorprtion of various proteins. blonde haired folk do not do well with casein based proteins, most theorize this has to do with the history of germans and nazi's.

Fast, Medium and Slow Protein Questions

Winnie-V: Need Info

Winnie-V: Need Info

I've been trying to shed these last few pounds (currently 6'1 215, looking to get around 195-200) and a buddy of mine just recommended Winnie-V (he has a connection to really a quality product). I've been trying to find some good info on it and havent had much luck so far. I just want to know if it is effective and if taken as dosage recommends, what are the side effects? (i dont plan on stacking it with deca or anything and i will continue my current lifting/college sport regimen)

Pharmaceutical Name: Stanozolol Chemical structure: 17 alpha-methyl-5alpha- androstano [3,2-c]pyrazol-17 beta-ol Molecular weight of base: 344.5392 Characteristics: TThis is another one of the popular ones. Next to Deca and D-bol the third most abused substance among athletes is stanozolol, as documented by the many positive drug tests. Among them the case sprinter Ben Johnson, who was stripped of his Gold Medal in the 100 meter dash in the 1988 Olympics. But since then the number of positives has grown exponentially. In bodybuilding Shawn Ray's positive in the 1990 Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic (a brief stint the IFBB had with drug testing). Ray was the winner of that event, but Canadion pro Nimrod King was also shown to have stanazolol metabolites in his urine. That short paragraph to illustrate what sort of an impact it has made on the world of sports. Stanozolol is commonly referred to as Winny, after its trade name as marketed by Winthrop : Winstrol. In Europe this may be a bit confusing as the most available form there is called Stromba. Winny comes in two forms, an injectable form and an oral form. Both are equally popular and both are to be used daily. The injections are the same compound as the orals, which is methylated. Due to this feat it can't be esterified for time-release. So its not quite suited for weekly injections although this is claimed on the package insert of the veterinary form of Winny. Another thing that would further add to the difficulty of time-release is that it is delivered in an aqueous solution. That would not exactly facilitate the entry into adipose tissue, needed for the esterification and storage of the substrate in the body. The injectable version often gives more results. In similar doses there is still more breakdown upon first pass in the liver, making it difficult to get an equal amount absorbed. And on top of that it has to be mentioned that most people simply don't take an equal amount. Too many pills, lesser availability, higher cost. Many factors play a role in that. But of course an oral is to be preferred over daily injections as that gives the necessary complications as well. Think of abscesses and lumps, the searching for new injection sites due to pain and so on. Some have solved this problem by simply drinking the Winny injections. It's the same substance, also methylated to withstand the liver, the availability and price are better and its contained in water. So there really aren't many objections to this. Of course because they are the same substance, regardless of the method of use, its not advised to use Winny for long periods of time. Slightly less hepatoxic than most 17-alpha alkylated substrates, so it can be used a bit longer, as long as 8 weeks, but longer than that is not wise. Elevation of liver values is quite common. The specificity of Winny however, lies in how it counteracts estrogenic side-effects such as gyno and excess water retention. First of all it's a 5-alpha reduced substrate. 5-alpha reduction breaks the double bond between positions 4 and 5, which is required for conversion to estrogen via aromatase, the primary enzyme for the manufacture of estrogen in males. Because some of these compounds nonetheless show some affinity for aromatase they may have some use in blocking estrogen from other steroids they are stacked with. Wether or not Winny acts in this way is not entirely sure. What has been a popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid of Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects. Now, progesterone can aggravate estrogenic side-effects by agonizing estrogen and it does play a role in gyno. We also discussed that certain steroids may indeed stimulate and act at the height of the progesterone receptor including nandrolone and Norethandrolone. These hormones are also altered by it inducing a decrease in libido and a sense of lethargy and such, and eventhough they aromatize in lesser rates than some other steroids, they show an equal capability to cause estrogenic side-effects, particularly when stacked with other aromatizable compounds. Now there is evidence that Winny does indeed bind to the progesterone receptor1 and its users do not indicate the normal characteristics of progesterone stimulation, which bodes well for these anti-progestagenic properties. There is also some clinical data that it does aid in symptoms that require progesterone suppression2. Much in the way danazol was also successfully used. The one thing we shouldn't lose sight of however is in what rate it binds to the progesterone reception. There is no data on this. For all we know it couldn't bind strong enough to compete with nandrolone or norethandrolone. So its not wise to state that Winny is an anti-progestagin per se, but it does make Winny a good match for these products in stacks in any case. Strong gains are never really made while using stanozolol (it's a weak androgen since it has no 3-keto group needed for androgen binding), but decent and fairly easy to maintain gains are possible. Its limited time of use however makes most experienced users opt for other steroids in that regard. Winny, in bodybuilding circles at least, is used mostly during cutting cycles to maintain mass. Winstrol, like a DHT compound also gives a distinct increase in muscle hardness and striations in people with a low body-fat percentage. This lends further credence that it too may be a an anti-estrogen. But most likely it has more to do with the overall lower levels of circulating estrogen. Winny is also quite effective at promoting strength because it binds very well at the androgen receptor. Short term stanozolol use can promote drastic strength, a feat often employed early in a bulking cycle (although d-bol would be more suited in that case) or late in a cutting cycle to prevent a decrease in performance. This combined with the red blood cell count-stimulating properties of its androgen affinity make it popular among track athletes as well in order to beget better results. As many, including Ben Johnson, did not take into account it can be detected for quite some time after last use so its not advisable for drug tested athletes. Many have assumed otherwise due to the short half-life, but apparently some inactive metabolites are easily esterified, so they can be found up to 5 months after the last injection. Winny is mostly quite well-tolerated in men. Cramps, headaches, elevated blood pressure and cholesterol levels and liver damage are noted, but on a not so-frequent basis. Standard virilization symptoms associated with the stimulating of the androgen receptor, however, are a problem. Acne, prostate hypertrophy and an aggravation of male pattern baldness can occur, so use by women has to be discouraged. Due to the frequent rate of injections, users generally have to go spotting for different sites of injection on the body. Calves, shoulders, arms and such. When doing so they noted a localized increase in mass which has given root to the myth that Winny can add muscle where it is injected. What I'm about to say goes for all compounds known to date : Steroids do not increase mass locally. The observance is noted because the injection breaks the fascia around the muscle, which possibly gives a muscle a little more room to grow. This is mostly temporary, and in the best cases very limited. Multiple injections would not increase the size in comparison. When the fascia heals, if it heals, it can lead to something called compartments syndrome, where a nerve is pinched between a muscle and its fascia. Leading to numbness quite often and in some cases to a paralysis of everything that nerve controls. This is not a frequent occurrence. This is rare, but my point was documenting that localized growth spurred by an injection is a myth. A last note about injectable Winny is : shake before use. Its called an aqueous solution, but the Winny being a steroid is not particularly polar, meaning it doesn't dissolve in the water. When the stuff sits, it will accumulate at the bottom of the vial. A good way to recognize the real stuff as well. So shake before you draw it into a syringe or mix it before you drink it, and perhaps even stir it again once in the syringe prior to injection. Stacking and Use: Winstrol is best used at a rate of 50 mg a day. When in an injection that amounts to a single injection every day around the same time. In orals, that'll be at least 5 tabs of a legit product. In a mass stack Winny makes a good match for Deca and Nilevar. Whether or not its anti-progestagenic effects are for real or not, lets just say it can't hurt. In any stack with Deca the use of 25-50 mg a day for the first 6-8 weeks of the stack can kickstart it and add some strength. With Nilevar there is a practical objection because it is also 17-alpha alkylated and more toxic than Winny, so your stack would be limited to 6 weeks, which is not overly productive. The pink ones are Anabol (Dianabol) and the yellow ones are Stanabol (Winstrol). These are very popular right now. They are 5 mg tabs and they sell for less than 30 cents a tab. For cutting purposes Boldenone, Masteron and trenbolone are the best options. If you are employing a longer stack, then use 25-50 mg of Winny for 6 weeks or so at the end of the stack. Boldenone is the best match here as the other two do basically the same thing. They act solely or mostly at the androgen receptor. Making them poorer choices since simply upping the dose of Winny would mostly achieve similar results. Of course neither is methylated, which allows for longer use. There is no need for an anti-estrogen as Winny may have such a property of its own and does not aromatize at any rate. The only counter-indication with Winny would perhaps be an anti-hypertensive if you use for a longer stack. Be sure to get liver values checked if you use for longer than 6 weeks on end. There is no real use for Clomid or Nolva post-cycle for Winny specifically since there is no post-cycle aromatisation to cause negative feedback. That makes whatever gains you made on Winny quite easy to maintain. References 1 Ellis AJ, Cawston TE, Mackie EJ., The differential effects of stanozolol on human skin and synovial fibroblasts in vitro: DNA synthesis and receptor binding., Agents Actions 1994 Mar;41(1-2):37-43 2 Brestel EP, Thrush LB., The treatment of glucocorticosteroid-dependent chronic urticaria with stanozolol., J Allergy Clin Immunol 1988 Aug;82(2):265-9 From bodybuilding.com

you should be able to lose the weight with the right diet and enough cardio. if your diet isnt in check you probably wont lose it on winny

you are not experienced enough

there is no steroid that will cut bodyfat on its own, im sorry you've been misinformed.

Mass there is no steroid that will cut bodyfat on its own, im sorry you've been misinformed. /thread

Winnie-V: Need Info

I went running today

I went running today

I'm going to start going in the mornings now, becuase it's getting too hot, even at 5pm, to go running at night at a reasonable time. Ran between 4 and 5 miles (don't know for sure, it isn't measured) in about 35 minutes. My late June 10k goal time of 40 minutes is within reach

i went for a run yesterday also. got a nice tan its best to do cardio in the morning on an empty stomache anyway.

jonno i went for a run yesterday also. got a nice tan its best to do cardio in the morning on an empty stomache anyway. Very argumentative.

I do cardio on an empty stomach (well except for the morning vitamins and HEAT stack) and then later in the evening a few hours after lifting. I just tend to walk an hour at a time though as opposed to running long distances.

I get a much better workout if I have eaten something for energy

Ran again this morning, and both mornings on an empty stomach. When I'm training, I usually wake up and, less than 20 minutes later, I'm running, so I don't worry about empty stomach. The morning before a race, though, I usually have some toast and a banana or something to give me a little extra energy while still being easy on the ol' stomach. NEVER have pancakes before a race, though. (Learned that the hard way...)

I wish I had never stopped running. I find it hard to get myself back into the grind of things, but the New England weather seems to be very demotivational when it comes to wanting to go out in the cold. I'm heading to boot in Parris Island in September though and want to have a good endurance base. Right now I'm only at about 3-4 mile runs. It's a good feeling though.

40 minutes for a 10k? That's a mean pace man, good luck Something very relaxing about running. When I need to think about things or relieve stress, nothing really does it for me like just going for a smooth 5 miler and letting my mind wander wherever it needs to.

how much do you guys weight...after i passed ~175 lbs running became so hard

christophers eating before hand = better performance = moe calories burned. it doesn't have to be a huge meal. thats what my swim coach used to say..before 5:30am practice i would eat a plain bagel and sometimes a protein shake...the days i did that i had a much better workout than the days i didn't eat anything.

willg133 how much do you guys weight...after i passed ~175 lbs running became so hard 5'9" 182 give or take a few, haven't done shit for awhile but in the past couple weeks I've done a few 2.5-3 milers no problem at all

toconnx 40 minutes for a 10k? That's a mean pace man, good luck Something very relaxing about running. When I need to think about things or relieve stress, nothing really does it for me like just going for a smooth 5 miler and letting my mind wander wherever it needs to. My 10k PR from high school is 38:37 I'm just trying to get back into the groove after my freshman year of college, not eating very often and not working out. Running most definitely does it for me (relieves stress). willg133 how much do you guys weight...after i passed ~175 lbs running became so hard I'm 155 lbs at 5' 11.5". I got down as low at 145 during my freshman year, but have gained almost 10 lbs since the beginning of May. Running has brought my appetite back. Well, that and home-cooked meals

I'm 6'1" 190lbs. I've been picking up my running in prepartion for the Army. I can do about 4.2 miles in the 36min range. Its not too bad. It's a fairly hilly route. If you run enough weight is gonna play a smaller role. I'm sure there are 200+ lb guys that can run sub 6min miles. My MOS is 18x which is Special Forces Recruit. The SF guys are incredible shape. I got much room for improvement.

Well... I ended up running that race in 41:53 I had shin-splint problems and wasn't able to run much in the weeks leading up to the race. I AM, however, planning to run the race again this year, and based on recent workouts, I will be aiming for the 38 minute range

warm Well... I ended up running that race in 41:53 I had shin-splint problems and wasn't able to run much in the weeks leading up to the race. I AM, however, planning to run the race again this year, and based on recent workouts, I will be aiming for the 38 minute range still a decent time, 10k is like 5 miles right?

SteveO still a decent time, 10k is like 5 miles right? 10k is 6.2 miles. I ultimately want to get down to below 36 minutes so that I can join the cross country team at Georgia Tech when I go back this fall, but we'll see. Baby steps.

I'm 205 lbs and can still bust a sub 6 minute mile. It felt a little easier when I was 165 lbs through high school though. I think I'm around 9% bodyfat but I think I'd like to drop to about 185 lbs this summer. For what I like to do I think being thinner would be better even with losses in muscle mass.

I went running today

Why soy protein supplementation is bad for you

Why soy protein supplementation is bad for you

a lot of girls love a guy with big tits

are you saying that soy protein gives you bitchies... never heard that.

keep feeding the propaganda, and ill keep munching on soy patties while looking at my bulging chest

Soy patties?

GilgaMesH Soy patties? whats wrong with soy products?

inspired keep feeding the propaganda, and ill keep munching on soy patties while looking at my bulging chest who needs girls when you've got your own nice pair of bulging tittays

It is a shitty, incomplete protein. And: http://getbuf.com/articles/soyestrogen.shtml

Even if you don't believe that article, it really is a shitty protein. Go eat some fucking meat.

GilgaMesH Even if you don't believe that article, it really is a shitty protein. Go eat some fucking meat. im not going to read the article but lemme guess, theyre talking about phyto-estrogen? and its not a shitty protien, try mixing soy with animal or even whey for a more complete protien source. the most 'complete' protien source doesnt even come from an animal, although that might be hard for you to swallow

Food Source Protein digestibility (%) Egg 97 Milk and cheese 97 Mixed US diet 96 Peanut butter 95 Meat and fish 94 Whole wheat 86 Oatmeal 86 Soybeans 78 Rice 76 Btw, pics of your "bulging" chest?

well isnt this nice to know. not that i eat much of it.

I've heard the whole eating soy and estrogen is a bunch of bs.

I love soybean milk in a can by Yeoh's.Asian stuff.But I rarely drink it so...

Mystery Guest I've heard the whole eating soy and estrogen is a bunch of bs. and ive heard that jessica alba wants my nuts, but until that happens, ill be staying away from any real amount of soy.

KetchupKing a lot of girls love a guy with big tits explains a lot for you

wow, there are some extreme misconceptions about soy in here. first, it is a complete protein that is high in BCAAs and glutamine. second, it is a superior protein as far as digestibility and utilization than whey or milk. third, i have reviewed studies done on older men and babies and both cases found NO hormonal differences in test levels with soy protein diet supplementation.

quasar wow, there are some extreme misconceptions about soy in here. first, it is a complete protein that is high in BCAAs and glutamine. second, it is a superior protein as far as digestibility and utilization than whey or milk. third, i have reviewed studies done on older men and babies and both cases found NO hormonal differences in test levels with soy protein diet supplementation. According to the National Research Council's "Recommended Dietary Allowances", 10th ed. National Academy Press, 1989, Soybeans have a Protein digestibility (%) of 78 while milk is at 97. Is there a difference between the protein digestibility of whole soybeans to soy protein powder?

quasar second, it is a superior protein as far as digestibility and utilization than whey or milk. PDCAAS and BV suggest otherwise

ok, the digestability stuff was from a page i was reading about the isolate. if only i could find a reputable company that makes the isolate, i would try it. ibfemalesteroidsarefoundinsoy

check this out, this actually describes the trend i'm seeing in recent studies, that soy may actually increase testosterone by lowering levels of SHBG (serum hormone binding globulin). the isoflavones in soy are converted to phytoestrogens which can block the estrogen receptors! http://www.maxsportsmag.com/science/issue12/12s3.htm

quasar older men and babies

from this page:http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/he...fits-use-2.htm "From this and other data it seems the phyto-estrogens can lower cholesterol and improve heart disease risk without systemic estrogenic effects (i.e. gyno, bodyfat increases, etc.) that would normally be seen if say the bodybuilder took estrogen pills or from the normal conversion of certain steroids to estrogen. This study is a little more relevant to us humans being it was done with male monkeys which are far more similar animals to people than rats." it also goes on to say it has been shown to raise thyroid output which accounts for the increased weight loss.

i hate to look like a jackass here but i've read enough studies to be convinced it lowers dht...(idiot)

if soy was as great as you guys seem to think it is i think all asians would be jacked. /thread

Why soy protein supplementation is bad for you

im not complaining but...

im not complaining but...

the week before i started bulking, i did alot of cardio to kinda flush my system out. durring this time i lost about 7 lbs of water weight. ever since ive been eating like a hoss and lifting almost every day. im 160 and consume at least 3000 cals a day w/ an ample amount of protein. but every time i step on the scale i get progressively lighter. when i look in the mirror it seems im losing fat and gaining muscle. now i am in no way sad if this is happening but from what ive read, if you are gaining muscle, you tend to gain fat along with it. could i really be gaining muscle and lose this much fat in an excess of calories? or is it newb gains? or should i just try and choke down more calories in a day? because with the amount of weight ive lost it couldnt possibly be all water weight.

3000 cals is barely maintenance if that for someone who works out. Up the food intake.

its so much harder eating after quitting weed, i usually eat b/t 4-5k cals a day since ive started w/ the very least being 3k. should i be shooting for like at least 4500/day? god i hope my appetite comes back soon

4k-4.5k sounds about right

crucialkc 4k-4.5k sounds about right werd, im well on my way to reach that goal today

if it helps to eat more when yo usmoke, then smoke and eat a fuck load, and work your way up to like 6k

ryazbeck if it helps to eat more when yo usmoke, then smoke and eat a fuck load, and work your way up to like 6k It'd be much more beneficial to not smoke, your appetite will come back within a week or two. Keep doing cardio for a little while it will be easier to stay quit.

yes but this guy isn't , so therefore he needs to up his calories you fucking chimp

ryazbeck if it helps to eat more when yo usmoke, then smoke and eat a fuck load, and work your way up to like 6k o believe me, i would loooove a nice fat blunt right now but the cops are all up on my ass and my school is drug testing me sum time this week, so i gotta lay low 4 a while.

incubimmer the week before i started bulking, i did alot of cardio to kinda flush my system out. durring this time i lost about 7 lbs of water weight. ever since ive been eating like a hoss and lifting almost every day. im 160 and consume at least 3000 cals a day w/ an ample amount of protein. but every time i step on the scale i get progressively lighter. when i look in the mirror it seems im losing fat and gaining muscle. now i am in no way sad if this is happening but from what ive read, if you are gaining muscle, you tend to gain fat along with it. could i really be gaining muscle and lose this much fat in an excess of calories? or is it newb gains? or should i just try and choke down more calories in a day? because with the amount of weight ive lost it couldnt possibly be all water weight. i'm telling you stop giving head to your bf! taht answers it all



XsLiCk i'm telling you stop giving head to your bf! taht answers it all

if you feel like you are gaining muscle and losing fat why would you fuck with your diet?

XsLiCk no 1 smiley post.

jonno if you feel like you are gaining muscle and losing fat why would you fuck with your diet? i figure if im not in enough of an excess to be gaining fat at the same time, i cant possibly making the maximum gains my body is capable of.

XsLiCk i'm telling you stop giving head to your bf! taht answers it all hmm that might be the problem....thanks for the advice ian! but wont u feel lonely when yer not getting any more slob on yer knob?

well what are your goals? if you're trying to look better, and you think you're looking better, then I dont see a problem. Beyond that I'd almost think you'd need to monitor bodyfat levels to really see where you are beyond your weight alone.

tize you need to up your calories bitch nah I don't, since january I've put on 22lb quite easily.

velamint well what are your goals? if you're trying to look better, and you think you're looking better, then I dont see a problem. Beyond that I'd almost think you'd need to monitor bodyfat levels to really see where you are beyond your weight alone. my ultimate goal is a cut 180lbs, but im looking to put on lean mass (and whatever comes with it) as fast as possible so that i can cut. i dont plan on making a cut 180 after this bulking cycle, il probably end up bulking through august and then cut down after that (or after my upper abs disappear, whichever comes first). im not a patient person but im patient enough to put in the effort to get the results i need, i just want to do it the most efficient way possible, especially since it will be a much faster cutting cycle with more muscle mass burning off calories. i have a bullshit bf calculating scale and have been looking for calipers all over but Dick's, Sports Authority, and Omega sports havent had even one pair. basically im trying to look better but for the future, presently im just working towards my goal w/o worrying about extra fat. ive lost 50 lbs before and im prepared to do it again edit: id be interested what christophers had to say

im not complaining but...

this time. no more bullshit. im on a mission. come in here and kick my ass. *pics*

this time. no more bullshit. im on a mission. come in here and kick my ass. *pics*

well i've made some changes in my life 2 weeks ago and this time i am on a hellbent mission to improve my life mentally, physically, socially, and financially/academically. ive only been watching what i eat for under 2 weeks. i've cut out juices and sodas completely and most fatty fatty foods but i've been undereating i feel because i've been feeling way too weak at work daily now. i have to start a plan but i dont even understand the terms you guys use like bulking and cutting, let alone forming a dietary and exercise plan. anyways here are my starting pics of what will be the last time i ever want to see myself like this. im 6'1" and 245 lbs. so far i've been doing roughly 40 situps and 40 pushups a day and 30-45 minutes of run/walk. and some clothed

this sticky should be revived from the archives http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=937642 good luck.

evi1eddie this sticky should be revived from the archives http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=937642 good luck. .

also www.fitday.com is useful

Bulking is eating a large amount of calories to make you gain weight and allowing your muscles to grow. Cutting is generally done after bulking, and is putting your body in a mild calorie defecit but working out just as hard to retain the muscles you have. You are cutting away the bodyfat you have. You really need to study the stickies and ask any questions you have. 30-45 minutes a day is a lot of cardio. You would be equally successful if you walked fast paced or slow jogged for 12-15 minutes when you wake up in the morning, assuming you have the correct diet. This would be best for fat burning and you would save the muscle. Your abs are muscles just like any other body part, and should only be worked out once or twice a week. Try doing 4 sets of 50 situps on Monday and Thursday. That is at least a start. You will not see your abs until you lose a lot of bodyfat. Study the stickies! (Unless you plan on lifting weights at least 2-3 times a week, you really won't be too happy with yourself and you will not see results nearly as fast. Read the "Want to lose weight? L I F T W E I G H T S" sticky.) It's a lifestyle, not a hobby. All or nothing.

Get a real lifting routine. It is so much more effective than just cardio.

ACURA TL-S Get a real lifting routine. It is so much more effective than just cardio. truth get a gym membership. if you want to change your lifestyle, think ahead. its gonna be a long way.

read the stick - lose weight lift weights that should be the staple of your program good luck!

one thing that i tell people over and over again when they are trying to lose weight is to not eat after about 7 pm. i'd be more concentrating on losing fat before bulking up with muscle, at your body fat percentage, muscle gains would be tough to notice under the fat, and the weight increase from the muscle gain might hurt your will to workout

cootercritter one thing that i tell people over and over again when they are trying to lose weight is to not eat after about 7 pm. i'd be more concentrating on losing fat before bulking up with muscle, at your body fat percentage, muscle gains would be tough to notice under the fat, and the weight increase from the muscle gain might hurt your will to workout /yourself wanna look better? lift weights and eat right

size18boarder /yourself wanna look better? lift weights and eat right i do, i do, and i do. these are suggestions for someone starting out, alot of people startoff with these crazy workout schemes and only end up burning up within a few weeks. its hard to go from doing a few pushups everyday to throwing down a mad workout cycle.

good luck man

cootercritter one thing that i tell people over and over again when they are trying to lose weight is to not eat after about 7 pm. don't listen to this

GENTLEMEN! PREPARE THE HAZING PADDLES! HA! HA! HA! HA!

yzf crew holla I sold her on sunday

jonno don't listen to this . For christopher's sake... it doesn't matter when you eat, so long as within any given 24hour period (usually measured til bed) your caloric intake is less than your caloric expenditure.

cootercritter one thing that i tell people over and over again when they are trying to lose weight is to not eat after about 7 pm. i'd be more concentrating on losing fat before bulking up with muscle, at your body fat percentage, muscle gains would be tough to notice under the fat, and the weight increase from the muscle gain might hurt your will to workout Who are you and why are you giving bad advice? The reason that not eating after 7 works is because that stops you from having midnight snacks which may potentially be harmful, but if you have some willpower and eat a little less during the day so that you can have some before bed it is much better for you. Having no macronutrients for that long is not a good thing, protein before bed = teh win.

cootercritter one thing that i tell people over and over again when they are trying to lose weight is to not eat after about 7 pm. i'd be more concentrating on losing fat before bulking up with muscle, at your body fat percentage, muscle gains would be tough to notice under the fat, and the weight increase from the muscle gain might hurt your will to workout

cootercritter one thing that i tell people over and over again when they are trying to lose weight is to not eat after about 7 pm. i'd be more concentrating on losing fat before bulking up with muscle, at your body fat percentage, muscle gains would be tough to notice under the fat, and the weight increase from the muscle gain might hurt your will to workout That is what my fucking Mom used to tell me. Now I call her a fat whore when she says that shit...she had no idea what she was talking about and neither do you.

Socrates That is what my fucking Mom used to tell me. Now I call her a fat whore when she says that shit...

Good luck.

cootercritter one thing that i tell people over and over again when they are trying to lose weight is to not eat after about 7 pm. i'd be more concentrating on losing fat before bulking up with muscle, at your body fat percentage, muscle gains would be tough to notice under the fat, and the weight increase from the muscle gain might hurt your will to workout so you are going to starve yourself for 12 hours until you wake up? That isnt good for you or your metabolism.

this time. no more bullshit. im on a mission. come in here and kick my ass. *pics*

I'm a retard, as you all know. Help.

I'm a retard, as you all know. Help.

My whole life, I have been chubby. On the verge of being in good shape, but still enough chub to bounce around. For the last 3 weeks, as i've talked about on here too much, I have been cutting. I went against the advice and was only taking in about 1400-1600 calories a day. It wasn't until yesterday that I noticed I lost a little bit of strength and my arms became a little bit smaller. I have posted my diet a few times, and explained my cardio. My cardio has been about walking very fast paced 15 minutes in the morning 4 days a week. I fucked up on my cutting, and now i'm ready to do whatever it takes it fix it. However, I don't want to get any fucking fatter. I am sick of having bodyfat on me all the time. My goal : gain much more lbm, while losing bodyfat. I have pmed quite a few of very intelligent members here on F&N (Steveo, timberwofl, gigla....etc) and they have all gave me great advice. I figured I would post this anyway and hope to get even more specific advice on what to do. <--- me currently. Please give me some great advice on what to do. I am not sure whether I should bump up my calories to like 4000+ (remember, i don't want to gain bodyfat, but I do realize I might have to sacrifice it for the greater good), and if I do, if I should just make sure to eat only clean foods, or if anything is okay..... Also....on July 6th (little over 3 months) I am leaving for boot camp for the Marine Corps. My main concern is to not come back from bootcamp a skinny little swizzel stick.

not possible..one or the other :

NoXeN not possible..one or the other : Unless he's a complete noob to lifting. Some facts about cutting:-You will lose weight -You might lose strength -You will most likely not gain strength -You might keep strength where it was before cutting -You will lose BF Some facts about bulking:-You will gain weight -You will gain BF -You will gain strength -You will gain size -You will lose sex muscles

If I took in about 2500 calories a day, but still did cardio twice a week, could I burn fat and put on lbm?

Oh shit, I didn't realize that you are leaving for boot camp soon. Fuck dieting, bulk as much as humanly possible before then, becuase you will lose alot of it during boot camp. But, unlike most bulkers, don't stop running, you are going to need the endurance. Just make sure to eat some extra calories to make up for those burned during running.

ACURA TL-S Oh shit, I didn't realize that you are leaving for boot camp soon. Fuck dieting, bulk as much as humanly possible before then, becuase you will lose alot of it during boot camp. But, unlike most bulkers, don't stop running, you are going to need the endurance. Just make sure to eat some extra calories to make up for those burned during running. Yeah, I forgot to mention the part about boot camp, lol. Should I go back to drinking regular pop as opposed to regular? Should I eat cake and cupcakes and other sweets whenever they are offered to me? I am still very confused on what to eat

Socrates My goal : gain much more lbm, while losing bodyfat. like omg, no one has ever thought of that before, you could be a king

princess0fdiabl0 like omg, no one has ever thought of that before, you could be a king I was specifying, not pretending it is some original idea. but

Socrates Yeah, I forgot to mention the part about boot camp, lol. Should I go back to drinking regular pop as opposed to regular? Should I eat cake and cupcakes and other sweets whenever they are offered to me? I am still very confused on what to eat I would stick with drinking diet unless you are under your required calories for the day. I used to have desert with every meal when bulking though. Just make sure to get at least 1g/lb of protein, get about 25% of your calories from fat, and get the rest mostly from carbs. Try starting at about 3000-3500 calories a day and go from there.

ACURA TL-S Oh shit, I didn't realize that you are leaving for boot camp soon. Fuck dieting, bulk as much as humanly possible before then, becuase you will lose alot of it during boot camp. But, unlike most bulkers, don't stop running, you are going to need the endurance. Just make sure to eat some extra calories to make up for those burned during running. I would still stick to diet pop too.

What weight do you guys suggest I bulk to?

until you start to look fat, seriously bulk until you are too unhappy with your fatness, assuming that isnt like.. 150 or something

Ahhhh I don't want to be a chubby fucking blob.....this sucks. I really hope the extra fat won't slow me down when I get to bootcamp. I enjoy being able to run far without losing my breath.... Should I stop using skim milk in my protein shakes?

I created a training log, so feel free to give me positive/negative feedback or advice at anytime.

Ilyusha -You will lose sex muscles How so?

cbrpimp bulk AS much as possible, clean if you can. My roomate went to bootcamp and lost 30 lbs. They will run you to death, lots of cardio. You will come out leaner than you have ever been. Did he lose a lot of muscle in boot camp, or did he come back with muscle and like no bodyfat?

I don't think you look fat, just girthy I must be a chubby-chaser if you're fat.

cbrpimp bulk AS much as possible, clean if you can. My roomate went to bootcamp and lost 30 lbs. They will run you to death, lots of cardio. You will come out leaner than you have ever been. I was lean going IN to boot camp. i was leanER coming OUT But I was really buff too

I'm a retard, as you all know. Help.

Thinking about Fat Fast type short term diet

Thinking about Fat Fast type short term diet

Anybody have any experience, or know any females (so unlikely) that have tried a short-term, really drastic diet? I'm thinking of something like T-mags Fat Fast, or the Draper Tuna and Water binge, something like that..just to get kick-started and get myself going again. It just never seems to be quite the same experience between guys and girls when it comes to dieting

girls seem to do well they combine diet and excerice with nolva

Mass girls seem to do well they combine diet and excerice with nolva If I thought I could get away with it, I'd be soo tempted to try *something* just to see; it gets frustrating chipping away bit by bit with slow results. Yes, it's the best way and all but...rawr.

If you lose any more than ~2lbs a week you will be losing muscle as well. It's just not healthy. Do it the right way, you'll be happier in the end.

It would work, but if you keep your diet in check you will lose fat just fine. Anyone that isn't losing fat when dieting (short of a very few with medical problems) isn't doing something right. And if you have trouble keeping your calories down during a normal diet what makes you think you will be able to do something like a PSMF without cheating on a regular basis.

ACURA TL-S It would work, but if you keep your diet in check you will lose fat just fine. Anyone that isn't losing fat when dieting (short of a very few with medical problems) isn't doing something right. And if you have trouble keeping your calories down during a normal diet what makes you think you will be able to do something like a PSMF without cheating on a regular basis. True; I'm just interested in something drastic for a few days to "jump-start" at least mentally. I eat pretty darn clean, went back to keeping my food journal as I have at other times, yet there's this point at which I seem to stick and the bodyfat just isn't budging despite more HIIT, different times, different lifting cycles..

Elfling True; I'm just interested in something drastic for a few days to "jump-start" at least mentally. I eat pretty darn clean, went back to keeping my food journal as I have at other times, yet there's this point at which I seem to stick and the bodyfat just isn't budging despite more HIIT, different times, different lifting cycles.. Less HIIT, more incline treadmill walking. BTW, I am suprised that if you are dedicated enough to have a food journal that you are having any trouble. What is an example of your daily intake?

*cough cough nolva and some triacana*

below setpoint maybe... what's your bodyfat %?

ACURA TL-S Less HIIT, more incline treadmill walking. BTW, I am suprised that if you are dedicated enough to have a food journal that you are having any trouble. What is an example of your daily intake? Basic day lately has been: 1) 1/2 cup oatmeal, 1 scoop pp 2)1 can tuna 3) 2 lean turkey sausages, broccoli 4) 2 sticks string cheese, apple 5) protein pancake/lean turkey burger/lean beef/veggies With different variances, it's coming out to 1600-1800 calories a day. I *think* what's been tripping me up lately is the little column to the right which is extras: 2 hershey's kisses, 1 peppermint patty has been the norm lately. I was trying to go for eating a little bit every day and staving off binges but somehow I'm wondering if that ~100 calories is really what's tripping me up. Workout regimen is 5 days of weights, 6 days of cardio- 4 of the cardio days are interval running. Seriously, after 5 years of working out and working on my nutrition I would *think* I'd be seeing better results. I gave up on the treadmill incline walking..it was giving me calf problems and I like running better anyways.

Thinking about Fat Fast type short term diet

Is the BodyFat Measurement on my Home Scale accurate?

Is the BodyFat Measurement on my Home Scale accurate?

I got a 50 dollar digital scale. it is one of those good kinds, the multi-cell technology.. anyways it has a BF measurement function and i was wondering if it is accurate. Does it measure my bodyfat by sending electronic pulses through my body or something?

No. Yes.

If it asks for your height, it's measuring it by BMI.

No, they aren't accurate at all. You might as well be using an online BF% calculator. There are too many changing variables to accurately check BF% through any type of electrical pulses. It can give you a decent ball-park figure, but I've heard they can be off by more than 15% sometimes.

Ilyusha If it asks for your height, it's measuring it by BMI. it asks for my height, age, and sex. if its measuring by BMI is that accurate or not? if thats not accurate what is an accurate way to measure my bodyfat?

I've been told by those things that I'm around 25%

damn if only i knew that earlier i wouldnt have wasted money on getting one with this feature.

RLiu818 it asks for my height, age, and sex. if its measuring by BMI is that accurate or not? if thats not accurate what is an accurate way to measure my bodyfat? multi-point caliper test, bare minimum

RLiu818 it asks for my height, age, and sex. if its measuring by BMI is that accurate or not? if thats not accurate what is an accurate way to measure my bodyfat? BMI is okay for deciding if you really need to workout/diet in the first place. To get your BF% checked, go to your gym and have a PT do a caliper test. It's still not 100% accurate, but it'll give you an idea of what it is and will also give you something to judge your progress better than just your weight. If you want a very accurate reading you can get some sort of liquid displacement test at a hospital. I hear they're expensive, though.

jump on your BF scale right after you wake in the morning, even if the % is off, those scales are supposed to be consistent. So you can note change if your going up or down. But you cant compare if you use the scale like in the morning one day and then after a big meal another day, etc

Is the BodyFat Measurement on my Home Scale accurate?

What are the advantages of clean bulking?

What are the advantages of clean bulking?

I read through a bunch of the noob thread and it doesnt spell it out, but it seems that it helps you gain more LBM weight, and overall gives you better nutrition. Is that about right? What are everyone's experiences clean bulking vs. dirty bulking? Sorry if this is a repost, I can't search.

Clean bulk = Less work when cutting.

I know what they are, I'd like to know what the relative advantages/disadvantages are of each.

why would progress be slowero n clean foods? doesn't it just boil down to # of cals?

A lot of people think it doesn't make a difference. How much of the excess weight goes to lean body mass and how much goes to fat is mostly determined by genetics. 80%. Its your P-ratio.

So basically with dirty bulking you put on more fat and less muscle? Am I interpreting that right?

food is all comprised of the same chemicals, 'clean' foods are not some magical form of chemicals that adds muscle without fat. The greater the carloric surplus the greater the fat gain, but also the greater the muscle gain. Its just going to be easier going far over the caloric maintenance level on 'dirty' foods. If you counted calories on a dirty bulk and a clean bulk and ate the same level of calories, I'm quite confident the fat gains would be relatively unnoticable

Bulking:Dirty Bulk = More Fat, More Muscle, Less Time Clean Bulk = Less Fat, More Muscle, More Time Cutting:Dirty Bulk = Takes Longer to loose the bf, keep more muscle mass Clean Bulk = Less bf to cut, could loose more muscle mass during cutting process than dirty bulk

christophers I agree with wazzle26

clean bulking will result in either really slow/no gains. if you seriously want to put on mass and get stronger, just eat balls to the wall. enjoy yourself too, eat fries and hamburgers and pie and shit. that makes the subsequent cutting a lot easier.

Sweet, I think dirty bulking is the way to go for myself personally. I think I am just going to eat pretty much normally but just add in stuff like chocolate bars, burgers, more pop, pizza. Want to add 10 pounds by July. Edit: I assume you just mean it makes the cutting easier because you'll have only been on strict diet for 6 months instead of 12...I'm hoping it'll make cutting easier because I won't be gaining a bigger appetite, but rather just an addiction to sugar, therefore I'll get cravings but not hunger pains when I cut.

Clean bulking is a slow process no doubt...I believe its for people who have already achieved some sort of serious muscle mass though. I think most kids in here need to eat clean 3-4 days and pig out the rest. Kind of a 50 50 mix. EVeryones afraid of getting fat...well to get to were i am I got huge/strong bloated and fat. Then cut it all off with hardcore diets. You do this over a few times and you come back leaner/denser and better everytime at the same offseason weight. Thats how I get to 260 and still stay 12%ish nowadays. disclaimer... Pl'ers are exempt as usual

PurEvl Clean bulking is a slow process no doubt...I believe its for people who have already achieved some sort of serious muscle mass though. I think most kids in here need to eat clean 3-4 days and pig out the rest. Kind of a 50 50 mix. EVeryones afraid of getting fat...well to get to were i am I got huge/strong bloated and fat. Then cut it all off with hardcore diets. You do this over a few times and you come back leaner/denser and better everytime at the same offseason weight. Thats how I get to 260 and still stay 12%ish nowadays. disclaimer... Pl'ers are exempt as usual nah pl'ers aren't exempt, I plan on going hard until I hit around 230lb, then cut down and maintain strength.

So....what do you guys recommend us newbies do for bulking? Clean or dirty?

I like diry bulking

dirty bulking just sounds more fun

did you guys find you got a lot of stretch marks during your bulking phases?

Rebs clean bulk = looking skinny all the time.. fixed

and i agree with Pur, i think the clean bulking route is for people who are already fairly big and just want to maintain their lean physique while adding muscle and strength slowly. but for the vast majority of people here, i think "dirty" bulking is the way to go and it's not as if you eat nothing but saturated fat...i still ate oatmeal all the time, plenty of omega3's etc.

na

I think I will be doing a hybrid of clean/dirty bulking as I want to keep a steady ratio of fat and muscle. Here is the kicker, I bet I could do it fast. For instance, me, who is currently doing 2200 calories, will be going to a 5000 calorie diet to do it crazy fast. The way that I would do it is with steel cut oats, protein powder, dextrose/other sugars, egg whites, tuna, fish oil/flax seed oil pills, no fruits, daily vitamins to make sure I got all of my stuff, cassein protein, skim milk instead of water on steel cut oats and a good 5 litres of water a day. You see, all you have to do is know some shit about insulin and how to use the bodie's most anabolic hormone. By adding dextrose to every meal, you make sure that your food is "absorbed faster". Holy shit I can't wait till I start my bulking phase.. sugar... that is one of the problems though, you get cravings.

dexterium I think I will be doing a hybrid of clean/dirty bulking as I want to keep a steady ratio of fat and muscle. Here is the kicker, I bet I could do it fast. For instance, me, who is currently doing 2200 calories, will be going to a 5000 calorie diet to do it crazy fast. The way that I would do it is with steel cut oats, protein powder, dextrose/other sugars, egg whites, tuna, fish oil/flax seed oil pills, no fruits, daily vitamins to make sure I got all of my stuff, cassein protein, skim milk instead of water on steel cut oats and a good 5 litres of water a day. You see, all you have to do is know some shit about insulin and how to use the bodie's most anabolic hormone. By adding dextrose to every meal, you make sure that your food is "absorbed faster". Holy shit I can't wait till I start my bulking phase.. sugar... that is one of the problems though, you get cravings. are you shitting me?

dexterium I think I will be doing a hybrid of clean/dirty bulking as I want to keep a steady ratio of fat and muscle. Here is the kicker, I bet I could do it fast. For instance, me, who is currently doing 2200 calories, will be going to a 5000 calorie diet to do it crazy fast. The way that I would do it is with steel cut oats, protein powder, dextrose/other sugars, egg whites, tuna, fish oil/flax seed oil pills, no fruits, daily vitamins to make sure I got all of my stuff, cassein protein, skim milk instead of water on steel cut oats and a good 5 litres of water a day. You see, all you have to do is know some shit about insulin and how to use the bodie's most anabolic hormone. By adding dextrose to every meal, you make sure that your food is "absorbed faster". Holy shit I can't wait till I start my bulking phase.. sugar... that is one of the problems though, you get cravings. Sugar to every meal and no fruits...let me know how that works out.

good point.

christophers ya, its up to you. however the person who gains mroe muscle/fat will pretty much always be the one to progress faster, especially if he lose fat fast ala werdna or the kid in our gym. also due to: more weight gain -> more strength -> more strength = more microtrauma = more muscle again, its individual.. but most people simply cannot think long term. its all short term. thats the biggest fault i see daily. shit I think my bodyfat varies with what I've eaten in the last 2 hours. no joke.

What are the advantages of clean bulking?

I still have a love hate relationship with myspace F&N

I still have a love hate relationship with myspace F&N

Some of my favorites These are in response to my posts or just random quotes of others I *strongly* disagree. Whether you're cutting or bulking, the bulk of your calories and carbohydrates should be post workout. It's nearly impossible to store fat during this time. If done properly, you can actually eat over maintenance calories and still lose bodyfat due to the partitioning effects of exercise. Post-workout nutrition is far, far more important than pre. In my weekly workouts at the moment, I concentrate all 3-4 days on upper body (chest/biceps/triceps specifically), with a day or two of rest in between each session. Is this working the same muscle group too often? Or should I continue this program? If I am overloading my upper muscles, I'd love to alternate to some lower body, back, and shoulder exercises, but as I said, I'm trying to focus mainly on those three areas first. Jordan What is the real danger of using that stuff that Mark Mcguire used I've heard that creitein is dangerous, but can anyone give me a scientific reason why? fuck u all any Druge that gives me BITCH TITS I ant doing. and I know people thats have died and r all fucked up from doing that shit. IN my eyes your all bitches I fucken busted my ass to look the way I do and I hate when people how much shit I took to look like that. I was out for 2 years with a fucked up rotator cuff and doctore told me I would never put up any real .. again and to them and all you FAGS out there I say fuck you all cause I did with nothing more then the food I eat. fuck you all cause when you all stop working out and you all turn to fluff ill still be big. you are all fag who want an easy way out . theres no such thing as over training, only under eating/under drug use... actually you need to eat more because it speeds up your metabolism and makes you burn calories faster....eat like 10-12 times a day. i dont mean meals but snacks. recently i've started working out, and i've noticed that my abs/arms/calves are getting pretty toned. however, i haven't really noticed anydefinition in my upper thighs even though they're slim. how can i build muscle tone (tone! not bulk!) in my thighs? That should give you an idea. Keep in mind these are threads from only the first page. Going to this forum makes me feel like Christophers must in this forum.

From another forum, this my most recent favorite quote. I think I actually hit my head against the wall a few times after reading this. "Using a very mild cycle of 250mg of Sustanon a week for 8 weeks, I was able to go from a very pudgy, wimpy, 180lbs. (benching less then a hundred) to a lean 145lbs. benching 160. Did I experience any side effects at all? No. Did I lose all my hair, grow boobs, and have my testicles shrink? Not at all. Did I keep all my gains? Of course not, but I am no longer fat, no longer a complete wimp, and way healthier then I was before. It really makes me mad when people give steroids such a bad rap, because of a few select bad cases that are senstaionalized." Now I admit at least the guy knew what he was doing and did proper PCT and shit, but holy fuck, using sust to cut to 145 and bench 160? THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE!

cavefish From another forum, this my most recent favorite quote. I think I actually hit my head against the wall a few times after reading this. Now I admit at least the guy knew what he was doing and did proper PCT and shit, but holy fuck, using sust to cut to 145 and bench 160? THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE! I hate people that jump into steroids before getting a good base. I mean why would you do it before even losing your noob gains.

What gets me is people think they need steroids to make those kind of gains. Fucking tards.

christophers heres a good one I don't think there was a wtf at the end.

I visited the forum the other day, and i saw that now Layne Norton posts there, just when i thought it couldnt get any worse.

Jeff Coleman I visited the forum the other day, and i saw that now Layne Norton posts there, just when i thought it couldnt get any worse. what you got against him?

Ilyusha I'm a homosexual. .

I *strongly* disagree. Whether you're cutting or bulking, the bulk of your calories and carbohydrates should be post workout. It's nearly impossible to store fat during this time. If done properly, you can actually eat over maintenance calories and still lose bodyfat due to the partitioning effects of exercise. Post-workout nutrition is far, far more important than pre. sounds like it makes sense... slight hyperbole maybe but i wouldn't say it's horrible

theres no such thing as over training, only under eating/under drug use... lol wtf

theres no such thing as over training, only under eating/under drug use... *chuckles* I've heard the no such thing as overtraining, just under eating before.

Elfling theres no such thing as over training, only under eating/under drug use... *chuckles* I've heard the no such thing as overtraining, just under eating before. for most people, it's true

I still have a love hate relationship with myspace F&N

Critique mah!

Critique mah!

Bombs away! Current split: weights M-F, cardio M-S Monday: deads, leg press, pulldown, high cable row (4 sets, 8-12 reps); 35 minutes running, 10-25 minutes elliptical Tuesday: pushups, incline dbell press, flyes, ab work (4 sets, 8-12 reps); 35 minutes running Wednesday: myriad arms/shoulder work-light day- 4 sets, 10-15 reps; 30 minutes elliptical, 30 minutes walking Thursday: barbell squats, SLDLs, unilateral leg press(5 sets, 8-12 reps); 35 minutes running Friday: pulldown, incline dbell press, high cable row/barbell row, pushups/cable flye (4 sets, 8-12 reps); 30 minutes elliptical, 30 minutes walking Saturday: outside run or cardio at the gym I'm feeling in need of a change, this has more or less been my routine for six months, and while it ain't broke, change is good for the soul. I'm considering going to a more basic 4 day split, especially since I will be moving to Florida on or about June 1st and that would be easier to maintain during some craziness. NB: I'm doing pretty well lately, losing bodyfat slowwwly but at least enough I can tell for once; I want to keep up my running and my strength but I'll sacrifice a little bit either way if it gets me lower in the fat %.

I'd split up cardio and weight training.

IBweneedpics

you're leaving the greatest state ever for FL??? j/k what's your progress been on that routine?

damn that's alot of cardio..personally i would just lower cals a tad and maybe whipe out some of that cardio

looks pretty good to me, i do more cardio than that right now but i probably have more bf than you. if you are in pretty good shape maybe drop that sat and give yourself two full days off

If that ab work is crunches, 8-12 reps is not enough.

Socrates If that ab work is crunches, 8-12 reps is not enough. 8-12 is fine for abs

AznRyda I'd split up cardio and weight training. I would really like to. Maybe once I'm in a warmer state I can go back to running in the morning and lifting at night. It's just too freaking cold and dark up here and my gym has shit hours.

i usually do 6-8 intense reps for everything but crunches, which i do @ least 20 reps a set.

Jeg1983 8-12 is fine for abs 8-12 crunches wouldn't even get you tired.

tize i did 2 sets of 6 reps today with 30lbs behind my head Yeah, I can understand that. I just don't see how 8-12 reps of regular situps could get someone tired. Probably just me!

Socrates Yeah, I can understand that. I just don't see how 8-12 reps of regular situps could get someone tired. Probably just me! Who said anything about being tired? If your workout is structured around working to fatigue, great. Mine's not atm

Critique mah!

ECY stack?

ECY stack?

Sorry if I sound like an idiot. But what exactly is this and whats the point? Whats ECY stand for?

check the archives It stands for Ephedrine-Caffeine-Yohimbine and is used to lower bodyfat.

ECY stack?

How do you know if you're burning fat or cardohydrates?

How do you know if you're burning fat or cardohydrates?

One question I still don't understand is how do we know whether we're burning fat from our bodies and not carbohydrates that we have recently eaten? I'm talking about when we're doing cardio exercises (treadmill etc) or lifting weights in general. Any insight?

You feel the tingle in your special place.

carbs are the bodies preferred energy source so you are using them first whenever you do any type of activity

cunninglinguist carbs are the bodies preferred energy source so you are using them first whenever you do any type of activity not if your eating zero

cunninglinguist carbs are the bodies preferred energy source so you are using them first whenever you do any type of activity So what happens when you run out? You start burning fat? What about muscle, how do you know you're not burning your muscle tissue instead?

doesnt matter

jonno doesnt matter .

christophers at the end of the day it doesnt matter what you use during exercise in laymans, you can pull fat out of the cell during low intensity cardio for example if you are depleted enough, but that doesn't mean it's oxidized. it will just be put right back in if at the end of the day you are not in a deficit. For most of us excersising without glycogen in our muscles is pretty bad because we may go catabolic and eat our muscles instead of oxidising fat. It's best to just tailor you're diet so you're in a calorie deficit but make sure you have glycogen (carbs) around you're workout so your body does'nt fuck itself and go catabolic. Having said that, a few guys on this board workout on empty stomachs in the morning and still make gains (ie timberwolf) but this is right in the morning after just waking up, so he may still have glycogen from the night before as it has'nt be burnt through the day yet. I though cos I ain't him.

eddscat For most of us excersising without glycogen in our muscles is pretty bad because we may go catabolic and eat our muscles instead of oxidising fat. It's best to just tailor you're diet so you're in a calorie deficit but make sure you have glycogen (carbs) around you're workout so your body does'nt fuck itself and go catabolic. Having said that, a few guys on this board workout on empty stomachs in the morning and still make gains (ie timberwolf) but this is right in the morning after just waking up, so he may still have glycogen from the night before as it has'nt be burnt through the day yet. I though cos I ain't him. you can in the morning since your most anabolic

christophers yes people drastically over-estimate glycogen like, people believe if you go to bed and wakeup, you are depleted. this is not the case. now, purevl on his 4tgh day of low carbs is going to be depleted. but he wont be for a few days after he carbs up. for the average person not employing strategies such as very low carb days, you will not be truly deplete dwhen you wakeup. if you want to truly deplete, and feel how shitty it is, do a few depletion cycles and eat low carb. I go two low one high and repeat, typically its 5 low days a week and 2 high, my high days are only 230 or so carbs as well. If i need to really step it up I will take the low days to 4-5 straight. You needs tons of muscle to be able to do this and also have to know your body inside and out. I can get away with it but others at my level would burn muscle in a flash. I take time to get sliced, some get ripped in half the time, thats there gift, mines the ability to hold onto muscle

keto stix

PurEvl I go two low one high and repeat, typically its 5 low days a week and 2 high, my high days are only 230 or so carbs as well. If i need to really step it up I will take the low days to 4-5 straight. You needs tons of muscle to be able to do this and also have to know your body inside and out. I can get away with it but others at my level would burn muscle in a flash. I take time to get sliced, some get ripped in half the time, thats there gift, mines the ability to hold onto muscle See I don't like the sound of carb re feed days because of the potential insulin spike and absolute raping your digestive system gets. I like the idea of just getting enough carbs pre and post workout and staying on a constant calorie deficit throughout the diet, at least for most normal people trying to lose weight ie most people on this board . Of course, you have all the experiance and real world knowledge so I'm just offering an opinion (IByouscareme ).

PurEvl I go two low one high and repeat, typically its 5 low days a week and 2 high, my high days are only 230 or so carbs as well. If i need to really step it up I will take the low days to 4-5 straight. You needs tons of muscle to be able to do this and also have to know your body inside and out. I can get away with it but others at my level would burn muscle in a flash. I take time to get sliced, some get ripped in half the time, thats there gift, mines the ability to hold onto muscle What does it do to your appearance? I realize bodybuilders do this in preparation for a show but I never really knew why.

Hip Hippo What does it do to your appearance? I realize bodybuilders do this in preparation for a show but I never really knew why. I get to under 4% bf at 212-218

eddscat See I don't like the sound of carb re feed days because of the potential insulin spike and absolute raping your digestive system gets. I like the idea of just getting enough carbs pre and post workout and staying on a constant calorie deficit throughout the diet, at least for most normal people trying to lose weight ie most people on this board . Of course, you have all the experiance and real world knowledge so I'm just offering an opinion (IByouscareme ). you're talking about a TKD, which is a well documented means of dieting for bodybuilders (as advocated by bobo and others for years) in a calorie and carb deficit, it really depends on the amounts of protein and fats in your diet, if you are not eating enough good fat, your body will preferentially use protein as an energy source; it also depends on genetic factors like your p-ratio

quasar you're talking about a TKD, which is a well documented means of dieting for bodybuilders (as advocated by bobo and others for years) in a calorie and carb deficit, it really depends on the amounts of protein and fats in your diet, if you are not eating enough good fat, your body will preferentially use protein as an energy source; it also depends on genetic factors like your p-ratio thank you, i dont have to type it now

quasar you're talking about a TKD, which is a well documented means of dieting for bodybuilders (as advocated by bobo and others for years) in a calorie and carb deficit, it really depends on the amounts of protein and fats in your diet, if you are not eating enough good fat, your body will preferentially use protein as an energy source; it also depends on genetic factors like your p-ratio Cheers dude

a couple other things, obviously it will be easier to lose fat with a higher bodyfat level and make sure you have plenty of water to oxidize the released fatty acids or they will be re-stored

How do you know if you're burning fat or cardohydrates?

Yohimbine HCl

Yohimbine HCl

I've heard mixed results on the taking this product. I jwas recently looking at ordering some Yohimbine Hcl 2.5 mg capsules and found some disturbing stuff on it. Some people are feeling depression and frequent loose bowels (sp?). I was wondering if some ot'ers were currently taking it or have taken it before. ALso what other supplements did you take with it?

I'm currently 178 5.10. I have problem areas i do alot of cardio and i lift when i can. I just got done with rugby and want to get into the summer shape. Was looking for some supplements that can provide me with some energy and decrease fat storage at the same time.

haha it's not for the bitches its for me. I'll post a pic later tonight and i'll let your guys rip me a new one. But does anyone take this or have read about it or anything?

Well does it work? Is it worth taking? What other supplements can i take with it?

I thought it worked great for the last bit of fat I had to lose.

AznRyda I thought it worked great for the last bit of fat I had to lose. thank you did you notice any side effects did you take caffeine with it also?

no sides. the only thing I hated about it was the dosage timing. I took it with caffeine. 6 pills in the morning 2-3 hours before eating.

DCCapen I found this little puppy by using the all too ignored button

AznRyda I thought it worked great for the last bit of fat I had to lose. Agreed. It works best for stubborn bodyfat / abs / obliques

pt Agreed. It works best for stubborn bodyfat / abs / obliques so whats the deal with you man? are you modding on BB.com now? i missed all the drama

Sgt. Ownage so whats the deal with you man? Not much.. up to 234 lbs clean bulking.

are you modding on BB.com now? i missed all the drama

Yohimbine HCl

Gatorade/Powerade > Water?

Gatorade/Powerade > Water?

Do you all think that Powerade/Gatorade really hydrates better than water, and if it does, does it hydrate enough to pay $0.50 a bottle of Powerade? I searched the forum and there wasn't a whole lot on this, so I thought I would bring it up. Thanks.

too much sugar in those fuckin things

Well I read this post, so that also prompted me to ask. MWHC22 sugars are the same way for me. i eat sugars when i feel like i need some. also if you look at energy drinks such as powerade or other fitness liquids they differ in water mostly in salt and sugar content. the main difference between one of those drinks and water with a pinch of salt and spoonfull of sugar is that the salts and sugars are engineered to in a more simplified form for quicker absorbtion into you body to get it ready for use. thus speeding up your digestive proicess to get the things it needs from salts and sugars.

LBKornhusker Do you all think that Powerade/Gatorade really hydrates better than water, and if it does, does it hydrate enough to pay $0.50 a bottle of Powerade? I searched the forum and there wasn't a whole lot on this, so I thought I would bring it up. Thanks. you need to drink lots of water that said gatorade is great used as a during/post workout drink, thats what that quote was referring to

Sometimes I have a thirst that only Gatorade or Powerade can quench. This is usually when I've worked out much more than I usually do in a day, like I went to play basketball or something after my normal workout. If you do a good job keeping hydrated normally you shouldn't need Gatorade, but in extreme cases it can be of some help.

size18boarder you need to drink lots of water that said gatorade is great used as a during/post workout drink, thats what that quote was referring to Ok, that was the answer I was looking for. I don't really like to drink Powerade just throughout the day, but after working out it's really tasty and I feel a lot less thirsty afterwards. Thanks.

Gatorade and powerade is great for replacing electrolytes, which is why it's suggested as a post-workout drink. Water will rehydrate you but not replace electrolytes.

i use powerade during my workout. btw powerade>gatorade

gatorade is called GATORade for a reason, its for fat alligator looking people who dont care about being ripped, you wanna be a fat alligator? who swims around in shit all his life? think about it? Or do you want to be ripped and drink water like a shark and have zero bodyfat and eat protein like shrimp and other fish all day.....be a shark, not a fucking deer eating gator who loves sugary bullshit and looks chubby as a motherfucker and not lean at all, your choice.

Patrick Bateman gatorade is called GATORade for a reason, its for fat alligator looking people who dont care about being ripped, you wanna be a fat alligator? who swims around in shit all his life? think about it? Or do you want to be ripped and drink water like a shark and have zero bodyfat and eat protein like shrimp and other fish all day.....be a shark, not a fucking deer eating gator who loves sugary bullshit and looks chubby as a motherfucker and not lean at all, your choice. at first I was like " marketing has gotten to someone" but then I realized who wrote this....

Gatorade is great if you're an athlete or playing a sport where you sweat out lots of electrolytes/sodium and need to replace your carbs.

Patrick Bateman gatorade is called GATORade for a reason, its for fat alligator looking people who dont care about being ripped, you wanna be a fat alligator? who swims around in shit all his life? think about it? Or do you want to be ripped and drink water like a shark and have zero bodyfat and eat protein like shrimp and other fish all day.....be a shark, not a fucking deer eating gator who loves sugary bullshit and looks chubby as a motherfucker and not lean at all, your choice. great stuff.

~*Pogovina*~ Gatorade and powerade is great for replacing electrolytes, which is why it's suggested as a post-workout drink. Water will rehydrate you but not replace electrolytes. .

Patrick Bateman gatorade is called GATORade for a reason, its for fat alligator looking people who dont care about being ripped, you wanna be a fat alligator? who swims around in shit all his life? think about it? Or do you want to be ripped and drink water like a shark and have zero bodyfat and eat protein like shrimp and other fish all day.....be a shark, not a fucking deer eating gator who loves sugary bullshit and looks chubby as a motherfucker and not lean at all, your choice.

gatorade is good for sports where you become glycogen depleted.

Patrick Bateman gatorade is called GATORade for a reason, its for fat alligator looking people who dont care about being ripped, you wanna be a fat alligator? who swims around in shit all his life? think about it? Or do you want to be ripped and drink water like a shark and have zero bodyfat and eat protein like shrimp and other fish all day.....be a shark, not a fucking deer eating gator who loves sugary bullshit and looks chubby as a motherfucker and not lean at all, your choice.

Gatorade/Powerade > Water?