Its cutting time but I cant run

Its cutting time but I cant run

I messed up my knee about 8 months ago. Its getting better and I went out and ran a half mile last week. which just made my knee worse and sore for a few days. So no more running until its completely better. What else can I do for cardio? I used a rowing machine a lot last summer which helped a lot.

you could just keep diet in check and you could lose fat that way. you could also swim or possibly bike?

eliptical machine if you have access to one. Great cardio workout, but easy on the knees/shins etc.

Carnifex L I F T W E I G H T S

DCyamaha eliptical machine if you have access to one. Great cardio workout, but easy on the knees/shins etc. an AWESOME machine. i think that's probably the only machine i used during wrestling to cut weight.

8 months and your knee is no better? Did you have surgery on it? If not, then you probably need it. If so, then you must not have done any rehab. Don't hold your breath for it to get any better unless you have it checked out (possibly again) by a doctor.

I got the same problem. I have a messed up and knee and it is time to cut. I have found the only thing to do is have a strict diet and do what you can on the elliptical machine. Or I dont know if you have access to one of these, but in my school's gym there is this cardio machine that you only use your arms for, its like a bicycle machine for arms.

Its cutting time but I cant run

thinking about starting an ECY stack V.11tybillion repost i know

thinking about starting an ECY stack V.11tybillion repost i know

I know it's a topic here every day but i wanted to get some advice. I'm doing good with my cut but would like to do better. :impatient: I think i have my diet done pretty well. im getting 2000-2500 cal a day 200-300g protein and about 70%/30% carbs/fat. I lift MWTF and 7 days befor i hit the same groop cardio on that days off and nothing on sunday, i also cheat for sunday dinners. is the stack going to help me alot of am i doing enough as is? again im happy with the results but if the stack is going to speed it up considerably ill try it. what do ya guys think? clifffs for the lazy: my diet/workout is good, is the stack worth it?

im saying if im getting my 2-3 pounds a week, is this going to increase that by any real amount?

Demize im saying if im getting my 2-3 pounds a week, is this going to increase that by any real amount? 2-3 pounds sounds a bit ghigh, the ECY does not burn the fat so much as it decreases hunger...

i think ill try it for a cycle. so what should i get? id like to go with most pure shit. links to products PLEASE

wtf dude

Demize i think ill try it for a cycle. so what should i get? id like to go with most pure shit. links to products PLEASE i went with vasapro, Mistich recomended it, alot of people are out of it ATM, I went with yohimbine from bulk nutrition, and cafiene from them aswell.

Demize i think ill try it for a cycle. so what should i get? id like to go with most pure shit. links to products PLEASE Clcik here



Demize I know it's a topic here every day but i wanted to get some advice. I'm doing good with my cut but would like to do better. :impatient: I think i have my diet done pretty well. im getting 2000-2500 cal a day 200-300g protein and about 70%/30% carbs/fat. I lift MWTF and 7 days befor i hit the same groop cardio on that days off and nothing on sunday, i also cheat for sunday dinners. is the stack going to help me alot of am i doing enough as is? again im happy with the results but if the stack is going to speed it up considerably ill try it. what do ya guys think? o clifffs for the lazy: my diet/workout is good, is the stack worth it? How much do you weigh? How much carbs and how much fat do you have per day?



I think you need more fats in your diet. Too much protein.

well i ate some pizza today lol weight= 190

just stick with your diet..

Neo22 I think you need more fats in your diet. Too much protein. I don't think he has *too much* protein at all.

should i do some e just to get bonkers on the weights once a week? one week i go bonkers on arms/abs next week legs etc ect. @ once a week will i build a tolerance?

i love teh protein, eat some raw eggs and red meat, flip out and kill some weight!

GilgaMesH I don't think he has *too much* protein at all. Compared to his fats and carbs he does.

Neo22 I think you need more fats in your diet. Too much protein. he's right, this will be an unsuccessful cut without dietary changes. you may find that you end up with less lbm/fat mass. according to your fitday log, your ratios are 10%fat, 27%carb, and 63% protein. if you're adding protein powder on top of that, the ratios are more skewed with way too much protein. you need more carbs and fat if you want to lose fat instead of muscle. even with that much protein, your body will be burning it as the primary fuel instead of releasing fat to burn.

i think you're asking for low blood sugar problems and i'd be surprised if you can maintain your current lbm thru this cut with the thermo

Well today im going to add some home made cookeis to my diet infact im eating one right now! would adding some friut and nut throughout the day get my carb/fat levels where they should be?

Demize Well today im going to add some home made cookeis to my diet infact im eating one right now! would adding some friut and nut throughout the day get my carb/fat levels where they should be? I'd go for between 60-80g of fat daily. YOU need fat when you are cutting. It should be around 25% of your intake.

vettedude 2-3 pounds sounds a bit ghigh, the ECY does not burn the fat so much as it decreases hunger... it increases lipolysis

Ceaze it increases lipolysis

Neo22 I'd go for between 60-80g of fat daily. YOU need fat when you are cutting. It should be around 25% of your intake. are you serious? for women too? i'm taking lipo 6 and i've been more concious about eating more protein and cals...but i'm still trying to cut down on my carbs/ fat. is this wrong? god im so confused

BrickTamland i started it today im pretty fucking jittery from the last 200mg of caffeine but i'm supposed to take another 200mg with ephedrine now give it a few days. my first day i was cracked out. now i can feel the energy, but i dont feel the sides at all.

thinking about starting an ECY stack V.11tybillion repost i know

Woot! My pants aren't fitting any more!

Woot! My pants aren't fitting any more!

Starting to need belts on all my pants. All i do is go to the gym about 2 or 3 times a week ( on a good week ) and only have 1 or 2 meals a day and lots of water. Yea, i know thats not the best method, but it works and i'll take it.

Why only one or two meals a day??

Same here actually .. yesterday was the first day I actually noticed it. Got a few pairs of 32's I'd love to fit back into and at this rate it'll happen by next week

good stuff...keep it up if its working

Elfling Why only one or two meals a day?? No time or mone.y

congrats to ya

Congrats! First are the jeans, then the sweat pants seem to need to be tightened a bit more and then finally the underwear don't seem to fit as snug and aren't as tight.

N.A Honda Congrats! First are the jeans, then the sweat pants seem to need to be tightened a bit more and then finally the underwear don't seem to fit as snug and aren't as tight. I'm loathing the new wardrobe i'll have to spend money on, tho it will be nice to not actually HUNT for nice looking clothes. Im currently at the size thats not quite normal, and not quite big & tall.

Bulking > * I grave up when baggy clothes were in. Now i'm growing into them No new clothes needed Congrats though... i was so excited when I managed to fit into size 30 jeans without needing a belt... you must be the same way

KetchupKing Bulking > * I grave up when baggy clothes were in. Now i'm growing into them No new clothes needed Congrats though... i was so excited when I managed to fit into size 30 jeans without needing a belt... you must be the same way I need to lose fat first. Im doing that through weights.

Instead of eating 2 meals a day, you should really be eating at least 4-5 smaller ones. Trust me, it helps a lot. When you only eat twice a day (breakfast and dinner) your body is going to store all those unused calories as fat. If your body is constantly taking in calories spread throughout the day it won't bother storing those calories and will expend them because there's a constant supply of energy coming in. It's just better.

xpinchx Instead of eating 2 meals a day, you should really be eating at least 4-5 smaller ones. Trust me, it helps a lot. When you only eat twice a day (breakfast and dinner) your body is going to store all those unused calories as fat. If your body is constantly taking in calories spread throughout the day it won't bother storing those calories and will expend them because there's a constant supply of energy coming in. It's just better. i try. I need to get back on my oatmeal/banana/cottage cheese/tuna routine.

who read "parents aren't fighting anymore?"

Woot! My pants aren't fitting any more!

Whose in the Loose skin crew with me?

Whose in the Loose skin crew with me?

Lost a significant (100lbs) of weight, and now your stuck with this loose, pudgy, loose skin..... Ill tell you, if you didnt know i lost 100 lbs, you would probably think it was a sack of fat or something. Its a huge thing for me....i dont know if it is for other people who have lost weight. I hate the sag on my stomach the most. But with it also, my muscles dont nearly look defined if i didnt have it.

Take it as a sign that you are meant to be HYUUUGE.

Loose skin crew member since 2003 Once I get down to about 200lbs, I'm gonna look into getting surgery to get it cut off.

im 19 and im on my way to 50 pounds lost total, will i have loose skin

Edghill im 19 and im on my way to 50 pounds lost total, will i have loose skin maybe, its partially determined by half fast ya drop the weight. The slower you lose it, the more time the skin's elasticity has to adapt. you should already have an idea by just looking in the mirror I dropped like 10lbs a month, which didn't let the skin adapt to my smaller body

Dragon420 Loose skin crew member since 2003 Once I get down to about 200lbs, I'm gonna look into getting surgery to get it cut off. Good luck, insurance wont cover it, i have been to a plastic surgeon already...he said it wasnt worth it...but i think it was

i have dropped 15 pounds in the past 6 weeks so i dont know, i dont see any loose yet, im hoping that im young enough now that it will come back.....i guess we will just wait and see, August 6 is my 20th birthday and i want to be down 40 by then

Dragon420 maybe, its partially determined by half fast ya drop the weight. The slower you lose it, the more time the skin's elasticity has to adapt. you should already have an idea by just looking in the mirror I dropped like 10lbs a month, which didn't let the skin adapt to my smaller body I wish i knew about this sooner..... i lost 100lbs in about 3-4 months

deznutz I wish i knew about this sooner..... i lost 100lbs in about 3-4 months DAMN how did you manage that

christophers i just take a bath in preperation H before i'm going to fuck a girl

christophers i just take a bath in preperation H before i'm going to fuck a girl

Edghill DAMN how did you manage that motivation, dedication, girls, parents... didnt see OT F&N until i lost all the weight....... No fast food No candy No pasta I was addicted to pasta....i used to eat it with noodles and butter.... but i cut a lot of food out and limited myself to at least 800 cals...

deznutz Good luck, insurance wont cover it, i have been to a plastic surgeon already...he said it wasnt worth it...but i think it was fdefinitely worth it to me too. all that extra skin just looks bad to me. I really gotta start saving up cause I want to get that and laser eye surgery too. maybe if we get enough of a crew we can get a deal

Dragon420 fdefinitely worth it to me too. all that extra skin just looks bad to me. I really gotta start saving up cause I want to get that and laser eye surgery too. maybe if we get enough of a crew we can get a deal I dont think they would give a group rate...if we all showed up wanting a tummy tuck...

when your skin is loose like that, is it also thin?

deznutz I dont think they would give a group rate...if we all showed up wanting a tummy tuck... if there's enough of ex-fatty's standing around the guys porsche/ferrari/whatever, think he'd be dumb enough to say no?

Dunken when your skin is loose like that, is it also thin? Yes, but its hard to tell between fat/skin........plus i have a distended stomach....

anybody here with lots of extra skin in single digit bf%? I was reading an interesting article about this a few weeks back, let me see if i can find it.

ok well it's not really an article but interesting anyway Dear Tom, Before I ask my question I just wanted to say thank you for all the help your Burn The Fat, Feed The Muscle e-book (and the monthly newsletters) have given me with my recent weight losses. Last summer I began a fat loss program using your e-book and it worked so well I got down to 15 1/2 stones (from 19). However, this has caused me a problem: Excess abdominal skin. I didn't crash lose this weight, it came off at the rate of about 2 lbs. per week. Now I'm unsure of whether to carry on, as my abdomen has quite a lot of excess skin - I feel like I've turned into a bloody Shar-Pei! (you know, as in the dog!) Does everyone go through this? Will the skin tighten up? I was overweight for more than 12 years. Am I going to end up needing surgical skin removal? Can you offer me any advice? I'm a medical student in the UK and my colleagues seem determined to proffer surgery as the only option - Needless to say, I would like to avoid that if at all possible... Sincerely, Mike Hi Mike Thank you for your email and congratulations on your successful fat loss Regarding loose skin after large weight losses, here's what I can tell you: 1. Skin is incredibly elastic. Just look at what women go through during pregnancy. Skin has the ability to expand and contract back to normal to a remarkable degree. 2. Elasticity of skin tends to decrease with age. Wrinkling and loss of elasticity is partly the consequence of aging (genetic factors) and also a result of environmental factors such as oxidative stress, excessive sun exposure, and nutritional deficiency. The environmental parts you can fix, the genetics and age part, you cannot. Advice: Get moving and change the things you have control over... Be realistic and don't worry about those things you don't have control over. 3. How much your skin will return to its former tautness therefore, depends partly on age. The older you get, the more an extremely large weight loss can leave loose skin that will not return to normal 4. How long someone carries extra weight has a lot to do with how much the skin will become taut after the weight loss: For example, compare a 9 month pregnancy with 9 years carrying 100 excess pounds. 5. How much weight was carried has a lot to do with how much the skin will resume a tight appearance. Your skin can only be stretched so much and be expected to "snap back" one hundred percent. 6. How fast the weight was gained also has a lot to do with how much the skin will resume a tight appearance. Your skin can only be stretched so quickly and be expected to "snap back." 7. How fast weight is lost also has a lot to do with how much the skin will tighten up. Rapid weight loss doesn't allow the skin time to slowly resume to normal. (yet another reason to lose fat slowly; 1-2 pounds per week, 3 pounds at the most if you have a lot of weight to lose, and even then, only if you are measuring body fat and you're certain it's fat you're losing). 8. There are exceptions to all of the above; i.e, people who gained and then lost incredible amounts of weight quickly at age 50 or 60, and their skin returned 100% to normal. 9. There are many creams advertised as having the ability to restore the tightness of your skin. None work - at least not in a noticeable, measurable way - and especially if you have a LOT of loose skin. Don't waste your money. 10. If you're considering surgical skin removal, consult a physician for advice, because this is not a minor operation, but keep in mind that your plastic surgeon may be making his BMW payments with your abdominoplasty money. (Surgery may be recommended in situations where it's not 100% necessary). Surgery should be left as the ABSOLUTE FINAL option in extreme cases. 11. Give your skin time. Your skin will get tighter as your body fat gets lower. I've seen and heard of many cases where the skin gradually tightened up, at least partially, after a one or two year period where the weight loss was maintained and exercise continued. 12. Know your body fat percentage before even THINKING about surgery. Loose skin is one thing, but still having body fat is another. Be honest with yourself and do that by taking your body fat measurement. This can be done with skinfold calipers or a variety of other devices (calipers might not be the best option for those with large folds of loose skin. Look into impedance analysis, underwater weighing, DEXA or Bod Pod). Suppose for example, a man drops from 35% body fat all the way down to 20%. He should be congratulated, but I would tell him, "Don't bitch about loose skin, your body fat is still high. Press onward and keep getting leaner." Average body fat for men is in the mid teens (16% or so) Good body fat for men is 10-12%, and single digits is extremely lean (men shouldn't expect to look "ripped" with 100% tight skin on the abs unless they have single digit body fat, and women low teens). Except in extreme cases, you are very unlikely to see someone with loose skin who has very low body fat. It's quite remarkable how much your skin can tighten up and literally start to "cling" to your abdominal muscles once your body fat goes from "average" to "excellent." Someone with legitimate single digit body fat and a ton of loose skin is a rare sight. So... the key to getting tighter skin is to lose more body fat, up to the point where your body composition rating is BETTER than average (in the "good" to "great" category, not just "okay"). Only AFTER you reach your long term body fat percentage goal should you give thought to "excess skin removal." At that point, admittedly, there are bound to be a few isolated cases where surgery is necessary if you can't live with the amount of loose skin remaining. However, unless you are really, really lean, it's difficult to get a clear picture of what is loose skin, what is just remaining body fat and how much further the skin will tighten up when the rest of the fat is lost. http://www.fitren.com/res3ask.cfm?compid=18&qaid=163

deznutz i lost 100lbs in about 3-4 months Wow thats extremely unhealthy. If you could go back in time would you do it any differently?

deznutz Lost a significant (100lbs) of weight, and now your stuck with this loose, pudgy, loose skin..... Ill tell you, if you didnt know i lost 100 lbs, you would probably think it was a sack of fat or something. Its a huge thing for me....i dont know if it is for other people who have lost weight. I hate the sag on my stomach the most. But with it also, my muscles dont nearly look defined if i didnt have it. MAN I FEEL YOU BIGTIME

deznutz Yes, but its hard to tell between fat/skin........plus i have a distended stomach.... dud ei have the same problem on my neck/chin its not fat BUT YOU CANT TELL

i dont have it bad



one of my friends has it really bad, dropped 100 lbs in about 6-8 months and now he's around 10% body fat, when he sits down the 6 pack is there but the skin just freely hangs over his shorts

Whose in the Loose skin crew with me?

Is my body just not meant to lift heavy ass weight?

Is my body just not meant to lift heavy ass weight?

when I first started lifting (a few years ago) I remember doing sets of bench with 50lbs (total). now I'm sure a lot of that was form, stabalizers, etc, but even so I doubt it would've been that much higher. Basically my point is that I have very little natural strength. I was always one of the weaker kids in highschool gym class, and I know my dad isnt very strong. Doing squats I could never lift significant amounts of weight (dont do them now because of unrelated knee/back injury). Deadlifts were better, but every once in a while I would hurt my lower back and have to take a break for a few weeks. And now just recently I hit a 5 rep max on bench, and the next day/that night my elbow starts hurting like a bitch. So my point is, I never really had much strength, and when I lift heavy I end up hurting myself. Let me assure you that I dont have horrible form or whatever. So should I even bother going heavy, or just try to be happy with going lighter?

I also have pretty small wrists/bone structure

I was one of the weakest/slowest/smallest kids in high school too. I started benching with 30lb db's. I'm still not nearly as strong as I would like to be, but I'm 50lbs heavier and lifting weight I never thought I would be able to even three years ago... moral of the story -- eat, lift, GFH so your elbow hurts, big fucking deal. You completely glossed over the fact that you hit a 5rm PR. Go easy for a couple weaks, rehab it if needed. If it happens again, figure out what is causing it. Maybe your form is good but you just moved something slightly wrong that time. If you get hurt lifting heavy, figure out when it happens. Don't go to failure EVER if that is when you get hurt. See what I'm saying? Lift heavy enough so you know you REALLY know you are giving it your all... try HST or some other progressive load routine. Maybe that will prevent injury. Bottom line - is it worse to have your elbow hurt for a week or two, or feel weak/small/unconfident/etc for your entire life?

yeah, you make some good points, and that is pobably the road im taking. however, you also brought up another good point. I have a pretty shitty metabolism/fat deposit areas. If I have some chub, I have some bitch tits. And while part of me just wants to eat everything in site and get as strong as possible, another part of me would like to be able to wear t-shirts this summer without worrying about my boobs jiggling around.

What type of lifestyle do you lead? Are you an active person?? The reason I'm asking this is a friend of mine started experiencing some wrist pain after the first couple of months lifting. Basically, what it came down to is, and I hope this doesn't sound idiotic, is that since he had a desk job, and having a relatively low activity level his muscle strength was gaining faster than his body structure causing joint and tendon pain. He remedied this by using a stress ball while at work, and doing some very basic calestenics (sp?) in his apt. Once he strengthened his base structure the pain from lifting all but went away.

velamint I have a pretty shitty metabolism/fat deposit areas. If I have some chub, I have some bitch tits. And while part of me just wants to eat everything in site and get as strong as possible, another part of me would like to be able to wear t-shirts this summer without worrying about my boobs jiggling around. Not everyone can/needs to eat everything in site in order to gain. You are one of them, as am I. The ones that need to do that typically are naturally very lean and do not carry much lbm. The best idea is to figure out what your maintenance calories are, then add about 500 per day to that. Get some calipers and learn how to measure your bodyfat. It doesn't matter if it's 100% right, just that you do it the same each time you check it. Lift fairly heavy and track your progress for a few weeks. If you are getting significantly fatter, lower cals a bit and do the same thing. The important thing is keep track for a while so you know what your body needs in order to grow without excessive fat gain. *note - this is for gaining muscle, not losing fat. To lose fat, read the fat loss sticky. Do the same tracking, but lower calories until you see results. Choose what is more important to you, because you aren't going to gain muscle AND lose fat at the same time. The best you can hope for is gaining muscle without much fat gain, or losing fat while keeping as much muscle as possible.

gstrdr1 What type of lifestyle do you lead? Are you an active person?? The reason I'm asking this is a friend of mine started experiencing some wrist pain after the first couple of months lifting. Basically, what it came down to is, and I hope this doesn't sound idiotic, is that since he had a desk job, and having a relatively low activity level his muscle strength was gaining faster than his body structure causing joint and tendon pain. He remedied this by using a stress ball while at work, and doing some very basic calestenics (sp?) in his apt. Once he strengthened his base structure the pain from lifting all but went away. eh, I'm pretty much your average college kid, I dont think that kind of thing would be causing too much of a problem, although I think I definetely need to up stretching and things like that...I'm actually going into physical therapy soon for back problems too

shastaisforwinners Not everyone can/needs to eat everything in site in order to gain. You are one of them, as am I. The ones that need to do that typically are e time. The best you can hope for is gaining muscle without much fat gain, or losing fat while keeping as much muscle as possible. I know, I know...this is just another thing that complicates this all for me but yeah, I am modifying my diet now and trying to figure out how many calories I need to be taking in, etc

I know, it's a bitch. The plus is that once you do it for a few weeks, it's easy to do almost unconsciously. You start to know the nutritional content of things you normally eat, and can add up what you need in your head. Writing it down all the time is the best way to be sure, but it's a pain in the ass. edit: Put it in perspective though... you're in college. How much more shit do you do on a daily basis that you don't want to? You do it to get ahead. Working out is the same thing.... well, you do it to get head. Either way, you benefit.

shastaisforwinners I know, it's a bitch. The plus is that once you do it for a few weeks, it's easy to do almost unconsciously. You start to know the nutritional content of things you normally eat, and can add up what you need in your head. Writing it down all the time is the best way to be sure, but it's a pain in the ass. yeah, at least theres fitday..I'm pretty much eating the same stuff every day, so it makes it easier

see my edit for motivation

I'd work on lower weights at this time to get your body parts stronger.

Is my body just not meant to lift heavy ass weight?

Ab help w/newcomer

Ab help w/newcomer

Ive just recently started lifting and brought back my running routine (going on 3 weeks of progress now). I was dormant from the health/fitness routine for about 2 years. Im naturally predisposed to being an athletically built guy, but it seems that even though im down to 166lbs, I cant get my abs back into the shape they once were. Here is a pic of what they look like now. They can be more defined if I flex, but in thier natural state they seem a bit flabby. Im eating about 3k cal per day, working out mildly and downing about 150g of protein. Im not looking to gain alot of muscle mass, but some gains are good. I havent been cutting at all. Is there a good way to get larger abs instead of just losing the weight around them to show them more? On to the pics number 1 show the place that has some def. and good strength (natrual state in pics) Number 2 show area that is flabby and soft. No matter how much I run or how many forms of situps I do, I cant get muscel to form there. Any thoughts?

your abs ahve fat over them, you want em to be more "defined" you are going to have to loose weight, wich is not gonna happen on 3k cals a day.

vettedude your abs ahve fat over them, you want em to be more "defined" you are going to have to loose weight, wich is not gonna happen on 3k cals a day. cal suggestion for a 166lbs 22 year old who works out the basic muscle groups every day? Run about 2 miles ever other day, too. I know you guys are far more informed than I, and im open to suggestions.

notstock93 cal suggestion for a 166lbs 22 year old who works out the basic muscle groups every day? Run about 2 miles ever other day, too. I know you guys are far more informed than I, and im open to suggestions. i suggest reading those majic posts at the top of the forum labbeled stickies and deleating this thread before you get flamed to death, and scared away. or just e-mail that guy named christophers, a hoby of his is making routines and giving out dietign advice, he obnly answers PM's as he is too bussy to post.

vettedude i suggest reading those majic posts at the top of the forum labbeled stickies and deleating this thread before you get flamed to death, and scared away. or just e-mail that guy named christophers, a hoby of his is making routines and giving out dietign advice, he obnly answers PM's as he is too bussy to post. well, I searched under abs, and the threads above deal with general nutrition (which are fantastic threads, BTW) but they are geared more towards the hardcore F&N guy. at any rate, I read the fat loss guide, but im getting conflicting stories from other nutritionists (I work at a gym) about the cal intake.They say 3k calorie intake is pretty much the max for an active guy looking to lose weight, this forum says 11-12x your body waight (no more than 1,900-ish cals for me) Thats why I asked. No need to get hostile. Im already getting everything else pretty much right in that guide (sans a few grams of protein)

notstock93 well, I searched under abs, and the threads above deal with general nutrition (which are fantastic threads, BTW) but they are geared more towards the hardcore F&N guy. at any rate, I read the fat loss guide, but im getting conflicting stories from other nutritionists (I work at a gym) about the cal intake.They say 3k calorie intake is pretty much the max for an active guy looking to lose weight, this forum says 11-12x your body waight (no more than 1,900-ish cals for me) Thats why I asked. No need to get hostile. Im already getting everything else pretty much right in that guide (sans a few grams of protein) uhh well, there stuff is not working, i dont really see how anything up there is hardcore, it is all pretty straitforward and applies to anyone. Your "friends" dont know what they are talkign about.

vettedude uhh well, there stuff is not working, i dont really see how anything up there is hardcore, it is all pretty straitforward and applies to anyone. Your "friends" dont know what they are talkign about. Alright, I didnt post here to for you to condescend to me. I hear one thing, I read another. Just wanted some advice, not someone telling me that its not working. I have a hard time beleiving things that I read on the net and just wanted some informed suggestions.

vettedude is pretty much right. the bottom line here is nothing about your abs, its about the layer of fat over them. now what you knwo you need to do is lose fat, and if you look on the main page it says "Sticky: want to lose fat? L I F T W E I G H T S" and "Sticky: Basic Newb Guide to Fat Loss" so obviously thats where you'd look. if you actually read it you'd know it has everything you need to know and you wouldnt be making this thread

notstock93 well, I searched under abs, and the threads above deal with general nutrition (which are fantastic threads, BTW) but they are geared more towards the hardcore F&N guy. at any rate, I read the fat loss guide, but im getting conflicting stories from other nutritionists (I work at a gym) about the cal intake.They say 3k calorie intake is pretty much the max for an active guy looking to lose weight, this forum says 11-12x your body waight (no more than 1,900-ish cals for me) Thats why I asked. No need to get hostile. Im already getting everything else pretty much right in that guide (sans a few grams of protein) well think about that for a second. does it make sense that a flat amount of 3000 calories would be some kind of special fat-loss limit for any active guy? Why would the numbers be the same for someone who is 150lbs vs someone who is 250? Your calorie requirements are based on your size, and then fine-tuned based on your genetics. So you start at 11-12x bodyweight, track your results, and adjust up or down from there.

Chris3G well think about that for a second. does it make sense that a flat amount of 3000 calories would be some kind of special fat-loss limit for any active guy? Why would the numbers be the same for someone who is 150lbs vs someone who is 250? Your calorie requirements are based on your size, and then fine-tuned based on your genetics. So you start at 11-12x bodyweight, track your results, and adjust up or down from there. THAT is the kind of answer that makes sense to me. I have no nutritional background, so the things that are painfully obvious to everyone here dont even occur to me. Thank you very much for helping me see. Im going to start on a 1,900 cal/day diet and continue my current "mild" routine.

you could crank up that "mild" routine to "vigorous" and burn more calories!

ryazbeck you could crank up that "mild" routine to "vigorous" and burn more calories! I may do that, but right now im audtioning for a part that requires me to not be overtly athletic looking. I don't want to endanger my chances of landing a part if I can help it.

Ab help w/newcomer

so I started christophers routine...

so I started christophers routine...

Hey what's up guys, Been a long time lurker on the F&N forums...been lifting on/off for the past 4-5 years. When I started out I was 150ish at 6'. Bulked up to about 200 at one point about two years ago, but right now I'm at 180ish. I started christophers routine last night and let me tell you it was INTENSE. Squats, deads, bench, incline really kicked my a$$ and I almost puked when walking out of the gym. Good times! Will try to post some pics soon.

gat damn boyeeeeee

the first week killed me, now doing all 3 in one day is not as big a deal

how long were you in the gym for?

the day after the first routine really burned, but i've jacked up my bench by 50 pounds, my squats by 80 or so, and my dead lift by 50 since that first day (i'd never really done the 3 so i started out with 135 for each.) now it doesn't hurt as much the next day, kinda makes me sad. any reason why? my body adapts to the new weight? i'm doing the same 5x5 routine as christopher's posted.

Probably about an hour or so...I started off kinda light because I didn't want to jump into super heavy...didn't really know what to expect. Squats 95 x 5 135 x 5 155 x 5 185 x 5 205 x 5 Deads 95 x 5 135 x 5 155 x 5 185 x 5 225 x 5 Bench 95 x 5 115 x 5 135 x 5 155 x 5 185 x 5 Incline DB press 35's x 15 40's x 15 45's x 12

I'm also enjoying this program a lot, I"m in my 4th week and have been seeing really good gains.

I'm doing this program as well, its going really well.

Hope to start this on Monday. Did he mention anything about eating? Im trying to lose fat in the belly and am following his sticky thread on fat loss. 5'4, 150lbs.

I have been doing it for about a month and a half going really well so far.

johnson Hope to start this on Monday. Did he mention anything about eating? Im trying to lose fat in the belly and am following his sticky thread on fat loss. 5'4, 150lbs. eat.

where is the routine posted?

chris, I'd really like to know if you have something else to replace squats? my hips just aren't cut for it. I didn't workout today because the pain came back. Deads never seem to bother me, it's something about all that weight on my back. I see myself in the mirror and form looks dead on.

Is this routine in the stickies?

Kozzy McKoz Is this routine in the stickies? no

deznutz where is the routine posted?

vettedude no Then where may I view this routine?

Chris, i am putting my lil bro on this routine he is 18, 6'2 and weighs 135 and needs to GFH, u think it would be k for me to have him do box squats after a few weeks, and maybee switch up the DL's from luiek sumo to SLDL, whatr about GHR's could i get those in there too for him? Monday Squats-5x5(Do four progressively heavier sets of 5 with the 5th set being your 5RM.) Deadlifts-5x5(Do the same) Bench Press-5x5(Do the same) Incline DB Press-2x12-20 Wednesday Light Squats or Lunges-4x8 each leg Good Mornings-3x8-12 Shoulder Press-5x5 or Dips-4xmax until you get 12 each time. then add weight. Pullups-4xmax Friday Squats-warmup to a 3 reps with 5 more lbs than you used on Monday. On the following monday use this weight for your 5th set. Bent Over Row-5x5 Incline Bench-5x5 Tricep Extensions-2x12-20

vettedude Monday Skittles-5x5(Do four progressively heavier sets of 5 with the 5th set being your 5RM.) Hohos-5x5(Do the same) Steak Press-5x5(Do the same) Incline Pepsi Press-2x12-20 Wednesday Light Pancakes or Waffles-4x8 each leg Good eatings-3x8-12 Donut Press-5x5 or Dips-4xmax until you get 12 each time. then add weight. Sweet rolls-4xmax Friday Skittles-warmup to a 3 reps with 5 more lbs than you used on Monday. On the following monday use this weight for your 5th set. Bent Over Vomiting-5x5 Incline All you can eat-5x5 Buffet line Extensions-2x12-20

christophers what's wrong with your hips? just pain? sharp pain, radiates to (or possibly coming from?) lower back, and sometimes to groin. I had a long post on it when it occured, and surprise - it came from SQUATS! Put me out for 2 months

Ilyusha :r ofl:

christophers this routine is too hard for ya buddy btw: What does this mean... Incline DB Press-2x12-20 2 sets, 12 reps? whats the 20?

deznutz btw: What does this mean... Incline DB Press-2x12-20 2 sets, 12 reps? whats the 20? maybee 12-20 reps depending on how u feel

deznutz btw: What does this mean... Incline DB Press-2x12-20 2 sets, 12 reps? whats the 20? 12-20 reps

deznutz btw: What does this mean... Incline DB Press-2x12-20 2 sets, 12 reps? whats the 20? between 12 and 20 reps

so I started christophers routine...

fat loss concerns

fat loss concerns

does a diet and excercise break down fat before you lose it? I'm on week 4 of my diet and excercise. I've been eating good and everything except for the morning. I usually just eat a banana or something light since I'm not hungry in the morning. for lunch I have a tuna sandwhich and for dinner a chicken breast or some more tuna. not soda or junk food at all. I do cardio twice a day. once before lunch and once at night. 15 minutes a piece. Now the thing, I notice my pants fit looser but my love handles are starting to hang more then before . is this normal? Its not all the time, only sometimes. Is it in my head or something? also, I haven't felt this good in a long time. oh and I do the cardio 5 days a week. also, I notice I get full very quick. is this normal also? Like I can't even eat much even if I wanted to.

sounds like you need to eat alot more

I'm not quite understanding the question /boggle Are you lifting? Or just doing cardio? Go read all the stickies

haha yeah I read all the stickies. just doing cardio. The thing is though, I guess I got use to not eating alot and get sick if I eat too much. What about the breaking down of fat? or is it in my head that my love handles hang more :O

you don't lose fat everywhere at the same time...

In my experience the fat gets soft and loose as you lose it, so yeah, your love handles could be hanging down more. If what you are doing works than keep doing it though some weight lifting would be good to add to your routine.

etech In my experience the fat gets soft and loose as you lose it, so yeah, your love handles could be hanging down more. If what you are doing works than keep doing it though some weight lifting would be good to add to your routine. Yeah I have noticed that too but could just be in my imagination

I guess its true then. thanks again. I know that I should be eating a little more but trust me, I can't. I guess I started out wrong but my body is use to it now and I get sick if I eat more then I do now. I know cause I've had a couple of days that I eat a little bit more and end up nausous(sp).

Ivan I guess its true then. thanks again. I know that I should be eating a little more but trust me, I can't. I guess I started out wrong but my body is use to it now and I get sick if I eat more then I do now. I know cause I've had a couple of days that I eat a little bit more and end up nausous(sp). if you get sick from eating too much then just up your calories a little bit at a time until you have a healthier amount of calories. Shouldnt be too hard, just have like a spoonful of natty peanut butter or an extra 2 or 3 eggs.

Ivan I guess its true then. thanks again. I know that I should be eating a little more but trust me, I can't. I guess I started out wrong but my body is use to it now and I get sick if I eat more then I do now. I know cause I've had a couple of days that I eat a little bit more and end up nausous(sp). are you drinking enough water?

And why aren't you lifting?? Out of curiosity..

bclimn are you drinking enough water? of course. thats all I drink.

Elfling And why aren't you lifting?? Out of curiosity.. I wanna lose some fat first then Ima start lifting when I feel I have lost enough.

Ivan I wanna lose some fat first then Ima start lifting when I feel I have lost enough. Reread the sticky on lifting to assist in losing weight... it changed how I think for weight loss (granted I haven't started lifting yet because of my stupid busy schedule )

Ivan I wanna lose some fat first then Ima start lifting when I feel I have lost enough. I used to think the same thing where I would do only cardio and trust me when I say that lifting is so much better then cardio. If you only lift you will lose jsut as much if not more weight then if doing only cardio and you will gain strength and some muscle as well. Lift now or you will regret it later.

BuckNut I used to think the same thing where I would do only cardio and trust me when I say that lifting is so much better then cardio. If you only lift you will lose jsut as much if not more weight then if doing only cardio and you will gain strength and some muscle as well. Lift now or you will regret it later. i agree. it sounds like you're in a severe calorie deficit. what you'll end up doing is losing a ton of weight, but still being flabby. its cause you're burning muscle, probably more than fat. i made the same mistake 2 years ago, i ended up being skinny as hell, but not cut at all. you should be doing what the rest of us "cutting" guys are. eat about 1900-2000 calories (depending on body weight) split up into 6 meals. keep protien intake at atleast 1g per lb of body weight (to help retain muscle) and eat clean otherwise. you probably dont need cardio 10x a week either, maybe do cardio 3x a week and a solid 3 day weight training split (workout 3x a week). otherwise i just dont think you'll be happy with your results, and it will just take you longer to reach what you think you should look like. this is all coming from personal experience.

fat loss concerns

Clothes worn during Weightlifting/Running or Jogging

Clothes worn during Weightlifting/Running or Jogging

anyone know if it's good better to workout in sweatpants and sweatshirts compared to say a wife beater (aka a-shirt) and shorts? you sweat more. your body temperature is higher so your muscles are warmer. does this help lose fat? or does it also help lose muscle? do you lose more calories this way? i imagine it would be better to wear warm clothes if your trying to lose weight, but how about if your just trying to tone your abs, and stay cut, but add muscle mass?

oh my. yeah the ONLY way to TONE your abs is to do around 500-890 crunches a day, otherwise you will just have a flabby tummy all the time. You can also spot reduce fat, like in your love handles, by using special massage oils. But be careful, if you eat too much protein your muscles will eat away and you will be left with nothing but bone and fat. Muscles can be eaten away and grown really easily but its really a fine line. watch out for that- check the noob sticky on how to turn FAT right into MUSCLE!

No, you don't lose more calories by bundling up or wearing anything to help you sweat more. All you're doing is sweating off water weight which will come RIGHT back and you risk dehydrating yourself or making yourself pass out or worse. The reason you DO see people doing this at all is they're wrestlers/boxers trying to make a weight cut; they sweat off a lot of weight very quickly, do their fight, and it comes right back the next day. They do this *hopefully* under supervision with their coaches though. Dress for the weather/gym..shorts, tshirt, pants and tshirt, whatever; clean up your diet and lift heavy.

joy division oh my. yeah the ONLY way to TONE your abs is to do around 500-890 crunches a day, otherwise you will just have a flabby tummy all the time. You can also spot reduce fat, like in your love handles, by using special massage oils. But be careful, if you eat too much protein your muscles will eat away and you will be left with nothing but bone and fat. Muscles can be eaten away and grown really easily but its really a fine line. watch out for that- check the noob sticky on how to turn FAT right into MUSCLE! If you're going to be sarcastic, at least give some sort of hint. Noobs get confused easily.

Weeeeeeeeeeee

i've been told that spot reduction does not work. u cant lose weight or fat in one area of the body by targeting them. fat comes off evenly from all the fat stores in the body. 500-800 crunches seems excessive. i do about 50 ab rolls, 50 crunches, and 50 leg lifts (roman candles), a day. i hope this will work, do you other guys agree? along with running a mile or two a day. PS: im not fat or nearly overweight at all. im 5'11" and i weight 160lbs. i do have a 6 pac, but its not as defined as i want. and it only appears when i flex. otherwise its really faint. my top 4 pacs are alright, I need to shave that fat from the bottom two pacs located right below my belly button. anyone have suggestions.

Elfling No, you don't lose more calories by bundling up or wearing anything to help you sweat more. All you're doing is sweating off water weight which will come RIGHT back and you risk dehydrating yourself or making yourself pass out or worse. The reason you DO see people doing this at all is they're wrestlers/boxers trying to make a weight cut; they sweat off a lot of weight very quickly, do their fight, and it comes right back the next day. They do this *hopefully* under supervision with their coaches though. Dress for the weather/gym..shorts, tshirt, pants and tshirt, whatever; clean up your diet and lift heavy. thus why boxers usually gain 8-15lbs between the time of the weigh in and the time of the fight.

BlissWitMyBlizz! i've been told that spot reduction does not work. u cant lose weight or fat in one area of the body by targeting them. fat comes off evenly from all the fat stores in the body. 500-800 crunches seems excessive. i do about 50 ab rolls, 50 crunches, and 50 leg lifts (roman candles), a day. i hope this will work, do you other guys agree? along with running a mile or two a day. PS: im not fat or nearly overweight at all. im 5'11" and i weight 160lbs. i do have a 6 pac, but its not as defined as i want. and it only appears when i flex. otherwise its really faint. my top 4 pacs are alright, I need to shave that fat from the bottom two pacs located right below my belly button. anyone have suggestions. have lots of sex

scrawny guys who wear wife beaters in the gym make me sad actually, any guy that wears a wife beater out in public makes me sad....

Alt+F4 If you're going to be sarcastic, at least give some sort of hint. Noobs get confused easily. What's the problem with that

Your shoelaces matter more than your clothes when working out.

Clothes worn during Weightlifting/Running or Jogging

Can I take Dietary Pills and Creatine together?

Can I take Dietary Pills and Creatine together?

I want to lose fat but pack on muscle. Is this a smart idea? btw the pill I am taking is Ephidrine EFX.

Losing fat and gaining muscle is impossible. One or the other!

Ugh. Go read all the stickies. And yes, incidentally, you can take Ephedrine and Creatine together, they're two totally different things. But I would suggest thoroughly educating yourself on what both of them *do* before you dive head-long into taking them. And read the stickies :P

Socrates Losing fat and gaining muscle is impossible. One or the other! Yes, you could.

iCe Yes, you could. http://www.fastmusclegain.com/ Myth #1 Not claiming to be right, perhaps the source is wrong! But I doubt it.

Can I take Dietary Pills and Creatine together?

stupid question about losing fat..

stupid question about losing fat..

sounds weird and i've been wondering hypothetically lets say you only take protein shakes and your vitamins throughout the day for a while probably really hard to do but you take about lets say 1000 cal worth of shakes and you work out normally and in the morning get like a tbs of peanutbutter to get you going would you lose body fat quicker? and would this be bad for the muscles... i know you are lacking nutrients and its hurting the body in the long run but this is just a hypothetical question.

sounds like a psmf

eh would it work tho?

i know if you do psmf in cycles but the refeed process... like what would you take in?

but seriously any thoughts on this... like i'm about 16 percent bf wondering if i did it how much would i probably cut down (this is in a perfect situation where i have a high metabolism)

www.bodyrecomposition.com Basically, a PSMF is 1.5 g/lb of LBM (not total body weight, just your lean mass), veggies, and fish oil for your essential fats. It's not meant to be long-term without a schedule refeed or some time eating at maintenance in there, but it's not too complicated.

XsLiCk sounds weird and i've been wondering hypothetically lets say you only take protein shakes and your vitamins throughout the day for a while probably really hard to do but you take about lets say 1000 cal worth of shakes and you work out normally and in the morning get like a tbs of peanutbutter to get you going would you lose body fat quicker? and would this be bad for the muscles... i know you are lacking nutrients and its hurting the body in the long run but this is just a hypothetical question. that is a horrible idea. You WILL be hungry all the time, even with EC. You won't learn good eating habits. etc. yes, you will lose fat quicker but it is ONLY because you have a huge caloric deficit. You are much better off doing it with real food for a variety of reasons. About the only workout you can do on a diet like this is maintenance: full-body, 2 sets per muscle, 2-3 times a week. Any more and you're just fucking yourself.

you'll lose a ton of muscle even with all the protein because your glycogen will be so low/non-existant it's why atkins people lose so much weight

I've heard of this diet. Basically flax seed oil and protein shakes and vitamins. It would work really good if you dont mind losing muscle.

Werdna you'll lose a ton of muscle even with all the protein because your glycogen will be so low/non-existant it's why atkins people lose so much weight Muscle and water wieght I think.

stupid question about losing fat..

Zero carbs?

Zero carbs?

I cant seem to find anything on zero carbs on offtopic because of the millions of threads returned when searching for zero carbs and google doesnt return much either. Going to do a zero carb diet for 3 weeks, mostly protein and some clean fat. After 3 weeks go up to 5g for a week then 10g for a week etc. Anyone ever done an absolute 0 carbs per day diet? like only chicken, egg whites, tuna, pure protein shake in water, and a few select cheeses, etc.?

Wouldn't that like kill your energy? I get tons of energy from my morning protein shake, but I figured carbs would load you up on energy.

ryazbeck I cant seem to find anything on zero carbs on offtopic because of the millions of threads returned when searching for zero carbs and google doesnt return much either. Going to do a zero carb diet for 3 weeks, mostly protein and some clean fat. After 3 weeks go up to 5g for a week then 10g for a week etc. Anyone ever done an absolute 0 carbs per day diet? like only chicken, egg whites, tuna, pure protein shake in water, and a few select cheeses, etc.? I use it all the time when competeing, what do you look like? How much muscle you got, zero carbs isnt for normal everyday gym people. You will piss through muscle like water, unless your really fat

0 carbs for 3 weeks? you're going to last a few days then give up. you will feel like complete shit. why not just go on a normal diet?

jonno 0 carbs for 3 weeks? you're going to last a few days then give up. you will feel like complete shit. why not just go on a normal diet? Does 0 carbs make you lose a lot of energy?

6'1.5" about and 214lb. i'd say about 12-14%BF. i've dieted before, 800 - 1200 cals a day like 10 - 15g of carbs and about 5 - 10g of fat. with one cheat day a week for like 5 weeks before and went from 18% to 12% bf. i know what its like to have no energy and have to struggle through the day because of a hardcore diet. damn i thought the good thing about zero carb was that you wouldnt lose lots of fat.

ib4hesays"dontdoit"

look up my diet, I posted i a few days ago, get an idea from that

thats not too low carb though. i swear i've read in many places theres benefits to low carb or zero carb diets, i could make my own diet fine and do high carb, i've done it plenty, but im interested in zero carb. does anyone have any input on zero carb?

ryazbeck thats not too low carb though. i swear i've read in many places theres benefits to low carb or zero carb diets, i could make my own diet fine and do high carb, i've done it plenty, but im interested in zero carb. does anyone have any input on zero carb? 60 carbs 5 days a week? umm ok good luck

You'll find it extremely difficult to find things that are zero carb. Why would you want to do zero carb?

Davo You'll find it extremely difficult to find things that are zero carb. Why would you want to do zero carb? not really eat boiled chicken with brocolli all day, zero carbs, broc is fiberous doesnt effect you the way rice would

search for ketosis or keto diet

I've gone on near 0 carbs for weeks if not months. I was okay on it or at least I thought so. Though now that I go for a little higher carbs (50-100g) I realize the difference energy wise and in my workouts. Lose weight abit slower but probably maintain more muscle.

so you actually do lose a fair amount of muscle on 0 carb? I bulk really easy. and i've done 2 low cals diets, 800 - 1200 cals one was 5 - 15g carbs a day and i barely lose any muscle. i suppose i could just try it and after 1 week and 2 weeks see how much muscle i've lost. i think i may workout not so hard when im on this diet as well. and there are plenty of 0 carb foods, nothing wrong with eating lots of chicken breast and clean steak, egg whites, and muenster cheese.

KingGargantuan search for ketosis or keto diet this is what made me decide to do 0 carb diet.

timberwolf I've gone on near 0 carbs for weeks if not months. I was okay on it or at least I thought so. Though now that I go for a little higher carbs (50-100g) I realize the difference energy wise and in my workouts. Lose weight abit slower but probably maintain more muscle. wow. i could never go on near 0 carbs for months.

i read some guy's account about how he did 0 carb for 4 months and lost 60 pounds.

ryazbeck i read some guy's account about how he did 0 carb for 4 months and lost 60 pounds. he probably also weighed 300+

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/keto.htm

I don't see the point of zero carbs, especially if you live a fairly active lifestyle. Just eat fewer calories and you'll lose weight.

i like to experiment with different diets and shit, its fun and educational and i like to do it. i posted this thread to get feedback on the idea and i get criticized, and people saying dont do that blah blah NIIICE

ryazbeck i like to experiment with different diets and shit, its fun and educational and i like to do it. i posted this thread to get feedback on the idea and i get criticized, and people saying dont do that blah blah NIIICE Same way here bro. I think 1200 cal is way to low for someone your size though. But commend the attempt in the spirit of experimentation.

ryazbeck i like to experiment with different diets and shit, its fun and educational and i like to do it. i posted this thread to get feedback on the idea and i get criticized, and people saying dont do that blah blah NIIICE If you are experimenting, then why do you need information? At the end of the experiment, you should see the results and be able to deduce whether or not it was a good idea in the first place.

hell yeah 1200 is way too fucking low for me, but i wanted to see how hardcore i could do it. i always try to find the fastest ways to lose fat but i do it kinda sloppy sometimes, like i did that and then just quit the diet cold and went back up to like 3k and barely gained any fat, its weird, my body is weird. i lost hardly ANY muscle at all on my 1200 cal diet either.

Zero carbs?

The Abs Diet

The Abs Diet

I know how everyone here hates mens health, so keep the hatred outta here on that aspect. But i read the book, and i found it to be a great read. Letting me know how my body works with particular foods, and at the back of the book, its got a GI count chart which i found extremely helpful. Has anyone tried the 6 week program just to see what the results were?

I'm curious about it too.

an "abs diet" cannot exist. You lose fat all over. If you are dieting/in deficit, eventually, the fat on your abs will wear away, period. As well as the rest of your body. edit: I hope ABS isnt an acronym for something completely different making me look like a complete idiot

i was talking less about the "abs diet" than I was about the principles in the book.

superbri007 I did it back in the summer. Overall, all the foods in the abs diet were pretty clean. I liked it alot 5'8 148 was my low point over the summer, and i attribute to it weight lifting, playing frisbee, and trying the ABS diet recently I got up to 170, then now im hangin around 165 well i'm over 20% BF right now (down from 34, however) and was thinking of trying it before summer. Of course i don't expect a six pack anytime this year, but I was looking for a good way to bring the BF% down and read the book and found it very helpful.

princess0fdiabl0 an "abs diet" cannot exist. You lose fat all over. If you are dieting/in deficit, eventually, the fat on your abs will wear away, period. As well as the rest of your body. edit: I hope ABS isnt an acronym for something completely different making me look like a complete idiot Its more/less a book about principles. Good foods to eat, and how they'll help you lose fat if thats what you're looking for. called abs diet because for men most fat builds around the belly, and its designed to help lose unwanted weight. edit: for some reason i kept typing "loose"

The Abs Diet

Hi F&N I'm back after 2 months off OT and I wanna thank you

Hi F&N I'm back after 2 months off OT and I wanna thank you

This very board put in my head the idea that a skinny guy who's been plagued by the can't-gain-weight syndrome can, with good diet and workout, start to see gains, and then see them stick. It's only been a few months but I'm seeing more gains than I ever did previously, and when I didn't work out for the last week because I have been moving, the muscle and weight I put on actually stuck. Any time previously in my life my body would have eaten my muscles away in that time. Getting a proper diet with plenty of protien does wonders for us skinny guys! And get this - I have the double benefit that a well balanced diet, of as much whole healthy food as possible, is one of the best things I could do for my Multiple Sclerosis. So thanks F&N, you guys really inspired me to push myself hard in a time in my life (after my first MS attack) when I doubted my ability to get by from day to day.

awesome man

great job

fuck yer mate!



what exactly did you do? just eat tons of carbs/cals/protein and giv'er?

I went from an average 20-something's diet to eating 6 times a day, with protien, carbs, and fruit/veggies at every meal, and started a good workout routine.

I was wondering what happened to you the other day, I thought maybe you had given up.

b-stevens I was wondering what happened to you the other day, I thought maybe you had given up. nope, my life has been insane, just learning to live with my disease, working out like crazy, training in a great new fighting style, moving to round rock, and planning a wedding.

Its great to hear that you aren't letting the disease beat you down and you're out there kicking life in the ass. Keep it up.

congrats man

Keep it up! And let me just say I wish I had the gaining weight problem instead of the trying to lose fat problem grats on your gains.

Great work. Keep it up.

Glad to know not everyone on OT became totally heartless while I was gone. Thanks for the support kids, once I get back on my schedule I'll post before and after progress. I also wanna get some calipers and continue to track my bf% too.



that's awesome. good job!!



nice

Hi F&N I'm back after 2 months off OT and I wanna thank you

how do you lose face fat?

how do you lose face fat?

pretty much under your chin and under the cheek area... i've tried jogging, and ive lost some weight and can see the difference in the stomach area, but my face looks the same

read the sticky

lower your calorie in take (eat less), raise your calories burned (exercise more). you can't pick and choose what fat you'll lose. read the sticky at the top of the page for more info. EDIT : christophers' sticky http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=1561528

fat is burned globally! If it wasnt u could chew gum everyday and lose the fat from your face.

cool thanks

i suppose you can build up facial/jaw muscle by chewing lots of hard ass gum and maybe get more definition once you bring the fat off. sorta like lifting weights to tone up?

May sound wacky, but my face look a little leaner if I add a quite bit of good fat to my carb meals e.g. A tablespoon of flax and 2 tablespoons of olive oil with some rice and a protein source. It's healthy fat so don't worry about the calories, they're needed . Try it for one meal, it seems to work for me, it may not for you edit - I have abolsutely no science here, just my own personal experiance to what works for me.

ryazbeck i suppose you can build up facial/jaw muscle by chewing lots of hard ass gum and maybe get more definition once you bring the fat off. sorta like lifting weights to tone up?

get bigger traps

kronik85 lower your calorie in take (eat less), raise your calories burned (exercise more). you can't pick and choose what fat you'll lose. read the sticky at the top of the page for more info. EDIT : christophers' sticky http://forums.offtopic.com/showthread.php?t=1561528 .

ryazbeck i suppose you can build up facial/jaw muscle by chewing lots of hard ass gum and maybe get more definition once you bring the fat off. sorta like lifting weights to tone up? wow

sucking 11ty cox and proper diet

NoXeN sucking 11ty cox and proper diet

face fat loss is just one of those nice side effects of proper dieting

Face fat is another thing somewhat controlled by genetics. Look at Marshall Faulk -- one of the best athletes in the NFL a few years ago. He looked like a beer bum in the face.

wow, my face fat is the first to go. I think the tummy fat will be the slow last.

I've always wondered this too, I'm went from 18% to ~14% and my face didn't really change, still chubby, someone said if I get under 10% I should see a bigger difference.

its hard to notice changes by looking at yourself unless it was a huge change. Ask someone who hasnt seen you in awhile. QBoost Controllers I've always wondered this too, I'm went from 18% to ~14% and my face didn't really change, still chubby, someone said if I get under 10% I should see a bigger difference.

when i went from 200 > 180 i didnt notice any changes from my face but everyone toldme i lost weight.

you lose face fat first....

ever seen those really fat chicks with thin faces/jawlines.......its like that...they've got a ways to go

danknuggs you lose face fat first.... Everyone doesn't lose fat at the same places first, sorry.

nathanbx Everyone doesn't lose fat at the same places first, sorry. in general...

i dont lose face fat until im 6% and under

If it hasn't been covered, stop drinking alcohol. I did and people notice the difference.

how do you lose face fat?

Thinking about Fat Fast type short term diet

Thinking about Fat Fast type short term diet

Anybody have any experience, or know any females (so unlikely) that have tried a short-term, really drastic diet? I'm thinking of something like T-mags Fat Fast, or the Draper Tuna and Water binge, something like that..just to get kick-started and get myself going again. It just never seems to be quite the same experience between guys and girls when it comes to dieting

girls seem to do well they combine diet and excerice with nolva

Mass girls seem to do well they combine diet and excerice with nolva If I thought I could get away with it, I'd be soo tempted to try *something* just to see; it gets frustrating chipping away bit by bit with slow results. Yes, it's the best way and all but...rawr.

If you lose any more than ~2lbs a week you will be losing muscle as well. It's just not healthy. Do it the right way, you'll be happier in the end.

It would work, but if you keep your diet in check you will lose fat just fine. Anyone that isn't losing fat when dieting (short of a very few with medical problems) isn't doing something right. And if you have trouble keeping your calories down during a normal diet what makes you think you will be able to do something like a PSMF without cheating on a regular basis.

ACURA TL-S It would work, but if you keep your diet in check you will lose fat just fine. Anyone that isn't losing fat when dieting (short of a very few with medical problems) isn't doing something right. And if you have trouble keeping your calories down during a normal diet what makes you think you will be able to do something like a PSMF without cheating on a regular basis. True; I'm just interested in something drastic for a few days to "jump-start" at least mentally. I eat pretty darn clean, went back to keeping my food journal as I have at other times, yet there's this point at which I seem to stick and the bodyfat just isn't budging despite more HIIT, different times, different lifting cycles..

Elfling True; I'm just interested in something drastic for a few days to "jump-start" at least mentally. I eat pretty darn clean, went back to keeping my food journal as I have at other times, yet there's this point at which I seem to stick and the bodyfat just isn't budging despite more HIIT, different times, different lifting cycles.. Less HIIT, more incline treadmill walking. BTW, I am suprised that if you are dedicated enough to have a food journal that you are having any trouble. What is an example of your daily intake?

*cough cough nolva and some triacana*

below setpoint maybe... what's your bodyfat %?

ACURA TL-S Less HIIT, more incline treadmill walking. BTW, I am suprised that if you are dedicated enough to have a food journal that you are having any trouble. What is an example of your daily intake? Basic day lately has been: 1) 1/2 cup oatmeal, 1 scoop pp 2)1 can tuna 3) 2 lean turkey sausages, broccoli 4) 2 sticks string cheese, apple 5) protein pancake/lean turkey burger/lean beef/veggies With different variances, it's coming out to 1600-1800 calories a day. I *think* what's been tripping me up lately is the little column to the right which is extras: 2 hershey's kisses, 1 peppermint patty has been the norm lately. I was trying to go for eating a little bit every day and staving off binges but somehow I'm wondering if that ~100 calories is really what's tripping me up. Workout regimen is 5 days of weights, 6 days of cardio- 4 of the cardio days are interval running. Seriously, after 5 years of working out and working on my nutrition I would *think* I'd be seeing better results. I gave up on the treadmill incline walking..it was giving me calf problems and I like running better anyways.

Thinking about Fat Fast type short term diet

Bulking confusion

Bulking confusion

when a lot of you guys bulk it seems like you don't really put that much on around your stomach. i want to bulk because i'm sick of having these little pussy boy arms, but it seems like my body likes to just deposit everything onto my midsection creating huge love handles. i've read all the stickies and i've frequented the forums for awhile now. i understand that you put on fat when bulking, but the main reason i don't want to bulk is because my love handles look sick enough as it is. i'd rather not give them more reason to get bigger. does clean bulking actually prevent this or is there anything i can do to combat my love handles taking on the bulk of the fat gain? i'm sure this has been answered, but i don't even know what to search for. pics for reference

if you bulk correctly, you'll gain significant fat around the midsection. that's just how it is. the people on here who are "bulking" and not gaining fat aren't really bulking. keep eating shitloads of food and ignore your stomach for a couple of months. concentrate on getting stronger and bigger each and every week. eat everything in sight.

Werdna if you bulk correctly, you'll gain significant fat around the midsection. that's just how it is. the people on here who are "bulking" and not gaining fat aren't really bulking. keep eating shitloads of food and ignore your stomach for a couple of months. concentrate on getting stronger and bigger each and every week. eat everything in sight. well, i've been cutting since is started lifting in october. my body composition has changed quite a bit since then. I want to bulk so i can put on more muslce, but it's really difficult for me to tell myself to get fat again.

I know how you feel man because I'm cutting right now and I will through summer but I know im not gonna wanna bulk because I'll lose my pretty definition. But I know im going to have to go through with it. Thats just how that shiet goes man.

i understand this will take longer, but would it work to bulk for a month and then cut and repeat?

I've been bulking for the past 2 weeks to put on muscle, its worked - I'm at my strongest ever so far. My fiancee isn't complaining about that. She is complaining about the gut though. Alas, I must start cutting soon

why is everyone acting like they can't stand to increase their body fat for more than a couple months? if you just want a little more muscle mass in a certain area, then bulking is only going to be temporary, and then after that you're free to cut and you'll never have to bulk again. being more satisfied with your body for the rest of your life > a few months of getting 'fat'

evi1eddie why is everyone acting like they can't stand to increase their body fat for more than a couple months? if you just want a little more muscle mass in a certain area, then bulking is only going to be temporary, and then after that you're free to cut and you'll never have to bulk again. being more satisfied with your body for the rest of your life > a few months of getting 'fat' well, i started working out to lower by bf and i haven't gotten to the point where i consider myself "fit." it's just hard to get fatter when you've worked hard to get rid of it.

bump for pics added

disblohs well, i started working out to lower by bf and i haven't gotten to the point where i consider myself "fit." it's just hard to get fatter when you've worked hard to get rid of it. i sympathize, don't get me wrong these are just the facts, if you want to gain you're going to have to bulk. stop focusing on the short term, and think of the long term and how it will be worth it. you've lost fat before, so you already know you can do it again.

evi1eddie i sympathize, don't get me wrong these are just the facts, if you want to gain you're going to have to bulk. stop focusing on the short term, and think of the long term and how it will be worth it. you've lost fat before, so you already know you can do it again. that's the only good thing to come from my cutting this summer...i proved to myself i could lose fat effectively

Werdna that's the only good thing to come from my cutting this summer...i proved to myself i could lose fat effectively i don't feel like i can. that's one of my main problems.

how about when you start to have a double chin? is that a bad sign or normal when bulking?

Joser how about when you start to have a double chin? is that a bad sign or normal when bulking? i know EXACTLY what you're talking about i started having that before i started cutting, but honestly i should have kept on bulking. its bitter-sweet being able to see all the lbm you've put on but also knowing there could've been a lot more.

Joser how about when you start to have a double chin? is that a bad sign or normal when bulking? well, you'll be gaining fat...just enjoy the food and the gains

when someone is bulking right about how much weight should they be gaining per week?

what I want to know is for how long should you bulk? Is 2 months a significant amount of time to bulk and then cut, or should you bulk for a longer/shorter period of time?

Werdna if you bulk correctly, you'll gain significant fat around the midsection. that's just how it is. the people on here who are "bulking" and not gaining fat aren't really bulking. keep eating shitloads of food and ignore your stomach for a couple of months. concentrate on getting stronger and bigger each and every week. eat everything in sight. funny you say that, coming from someone who eats dirty on a bulk... correlation? I don't care what anyone says, the people that stress these dirty ass bulks are always the one complaining of getting fat on their bulks. I argue this every time because it's true. my recommendation, eat clean and stick to low GI carbs.. it's basically a high calorie cut.

evi1eddie i know EXACTLY what you're talking about i started having that before i started cutting, but honestly i should have kept on bulking. its bitter-sweet being able to see all the lbm you've put on but also knowing there could've been a lot more. . i am bulking. i was 112 but i got up to 142 in 4-5 months. lately im trying to eat "cleaner" just to experiment. i still eat 6 meals a day. in the past 2-3 weeks but i lost 9 lbs . suprisingly i made gains. maybe noob gains but gains are gains. my question is, is there really such thing as clean bulking? because so far, it seems like ive been losing weight rather than gaining weight.

wutang banga what I want to know is for how long should you bulk? Is 2 months a significant amount of time to bulk and then cut, or should you bulk for a longer/shorter period of time? in general, 2 months is just getting your feet wet. if you've never bulked before then you probably don't have a significant amount of lean body mass to begin with, and will most likely want to bulk 12 months or more before you stop and evaluate if you're ready to cut. i was new and stupid so i only bulked for 6 months and now that i'm seeing what i'm cutting down to, i'm really starting to wish i went longer. for me its like christmas morning and i have a present in a huge box. but then i find out it was mostly just packaging and when i finally dig deep enough i find out it was just a pair of socks.

SteveO funny you say that, coming from someone who eats dirty on a bulk... correlation? I don't care what anyone says, the people that stress these dirty ass bulks are always the one complaining of getting fat on their bulks. I argue this every time because it's true. my recommendation, eat clean and stick to low GI carbs.. it's basically a high calorie cut. i saw that you posted your typical day of food in another thread. any idea how much you spent on food a week?

Joser . i am bulking. i was 112 but i got up to 142 in 4-5 months. lately im trying to eat "cleaner" just to experiment. i still eat 6 meals a day. in the past 2-3 weeks but i lost 9 lbs . suprisingly i made gains. maybe noob gains but gains are gains. my question is, is there really such thing as clean bulking? because so far, it seems like ive been losing weight rather than gaining weight. is there such a thing as clean bulking? depends on who you talk to. some say a calorie is a calorie and some say that macronutrients like saturated fat are more easily converted to body fat than other nutrition sources. but whether you're clean bulking or dirty bulking the most important thing is still your total calorie intake for the day. the difficulty most people find in clean bulking is that the food is generally lower in calories which means they have to eat more of it, which in itself is already difficult, but it also means that it's more expensive to get a certain amount of calories through clean foods than 'dirty' foods. it sounds like this is where your weight loss is coming from. even though you're eating the same amount of food, the food has less calories so you're going to need to eat a lot more of it to get over your maintenance calorie threshold. at your weight, you're going to want to eat at least 3,500 - 4,000 calories a day to gain weight, whether it be dirty calories or clean calories. www.fitday.com to check your caloric intake on your new diet.

christophers laugh it up, unlike everyone else on this board I am not the one getting fat on bulks.

disblohs i saw that you posted your typical day of food in another thread. any idea how much you spent on food a week? don't know, it's all bought in bulk.. I'd say around $70 every 2 weeks? not counting whey

christophers ps: i forget but havent you been in the 220 area for a long time now? yep surely have, actually for around 5 months now.. but 3 months of injury can hurt someone right?

Bulking confusion

Designer Whey and cutting FAT

Designer Whey and cutting FAT

Just wondering if something like Designer Whey would be ok to take after weight training workouts. I'm trying to cut fat plus build muscle, so I have my cardio and weight days....would whey protein be ok after my weight workouts? thanks

Why wouldnt it? Would you ask the same about eating a piece of chicken after a work out?

yes, but cutting fat and building muscle is not going to happen. You'll have to pick one.

Chris3G yes, but cutting fat and building muscle is not going to happen. You'll have to pick one. so you're saying the informationin 'christophers' sticky threads are false? i'm not trying to become a body builder here.

eliktronix so you're saying the informationin 'christophers' sticky threads are false? i'm not trying to become a body builder here. show me where christophers has EVER said you can cut fat and build muscle at the same time, unless you are complelely new to lifting and working out, or on steroids.

Chris3G show me where christophers has EVER said you can cut fat and build muscle at the same time, unless you are complelely new to lifting and working out, or on steroids. Those are the only ways that can be accomplished.

eliktronix so you're saying the informationin 'christophers' sticky threads are false? i'm not trying to become a body builder here. its more about maintaining lbm through lifting and a little more calorie usage through epoc. no one said not to lift weights though.

christophers i am getting annoyed at the ever so increasing suggestions to lose fat first through aerobic exercise and THEN begin weight training. this is so backwards. so. very. backwards. high intensity weight lifting will: build muscle mass build strength increase fat loss improve metabolism make you look a fuck of a lot better than waiting until you're done losing fat will. just following what he said since his advice has worked for me so far and yes i'm still new to a lot of this

Designer Whey and cutting FAT

Ok, is this a good routine, v. Im a moron.

Ok, is this a good routine, v. Im a moron.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/luis10.htm I do this 4 days a week, excersize 1, mon fri. excersize 2, tuesday and thursday.

lose fat, gain muscle mass, get stronger are my goals.

If you're juicing maybe.

killerZees loose fat, gain muscle mass, get stronger are my goals. one of your goals is to have loose fat? i kid i kid

for your goals its fine just getting in shape is not that complicated and there are no super duper extra secret special kgb workouts to do. Just lift weights, eat right, rest, repeat.

Ok, is this a good routine, v. Im a moron.

What are the advantages of clean bulking?

What are the advantages of clean bulking?

I read through a bunch of the noob thread and it doesnt spell it out, but it seems that it helps you gain more LBM weight, and overall gives you better nutrition. Is that about right? What are everyone's experiences clean bulking vs. dirty bulking? Sorry if this is a repost, I can't search.

Clean bulk = Less work when cutting.

I know what they are, I'd like to know what the relative advantages/disadvantages are of each.

why would progress be slowero n clean foods? doesn't it just boil down to # of cals?

A lot of people think it doesn't make a difference. How much of the excess weight goes to lean body mass and how much goes to fat is mostly determined by genetics. 80%. Its your P-ratio.

So basically with dirty bulking you put on more fat and less muscle? Am I interpreting that right?

food is all comprised of the same chemicals, 'clean' foods are not some magical form of chemicals that adds muscle without fat. The greater the carloric surplus the greater the fat gain, but also the greater the muscle gain. Its just going to be easier going far over the caloric maintenance level on 'dirty' foods. If you counted calories on a dirty bulk and a clean bulk and ate the same level of calories, I'm quite confident the fat gains would be relatively unnoticable

Bulking:Dirty Bulk = More Fat, More Muscle, Less Time Clean Bulk = Less Fat, More Muscle, More Time Cutting:Dirty Bulk = Takes Longer to loose the bf, keep more muscle mass Clean Bulk = Less bf to cut, could loose more muscle mass during cutting process than dirty bulk

christophers I agree with wazzle26

clean bulking will result in either really slow/no gains. if you seriously want to put on mass and get stronger, just eat balls to the wall. enjoy yourself too, eat fries and hamburgers and pie and shit. that makes the subsequent cutting a lot easier.

Sweet, I think dirty bulking is the way to go for myself personally. I think I am just going to eat pretty much normally but just add in stuff like chocolate bars, burgers, more pop, pizza. Want to add 10 pounds by July. Edit: I assume you just mean it makes the cutting easier because you'll have only been on strict diet for 6 months instead of 12...I'm hoping it'll make cutting easier because I won't be gaining a bigger appetite, but rather just an addiction to sugar, therefore I'll get cravings but not hunger pains when I cut.

Clean bulking is a slow process no doubt...I believe its for people who have already achieved some sort of serious muscle mass though. I think most kids in here need to eat clean 3-4 days and pig out the rest. Kind of a 50 50 mix. EVeryones afraid of getting fat...well to get to were i am I got huge/strong bloated and fat. Then cut it all off with hardcore diets. You do this over a few times and you come back leaner/denser and better everytime at the same offseason weight. Thats how I get to 260 and still stay 12%ish nowadays. disclaimer... Pl'ers are exempt as usual

PurEvl Clean bulking is a slow process no doubt...I believe its for people who have already achieved some sort of serious muscle mass though. I think most kids in here need to eat clean 3-4 days and pig out the rest. Kind of a 50 50 mix. EVeryones afraid of getting fat...well to get to were i am I got huge/strong bloated and fat. Then cut it all off with hardcore diets. You do this over a few times and you come back leaner/denser and better everytime at the same offseason weight. Thats how I get to 260 and still stay 12%ish nowadays. disclaimer... Pl'ers are exempt as usual nah pl'ers aren't exempt, I plan on going hard until I hit around 230lb, then cut down and maintain strength.

So....what do you guys recommend us newbies do for bulking? Clean or dirty?

I like diry bulking

dirty bulking just sounds more fun

did you guys find you got a lot of stretch marks during your bulking phases?

Rebs clean bulk = looking skinny all the time.. fixed

and i agree with Pur, i think the clean bulking route is for people who are already fairly big and just want to maintain their lean physique while adding muscle and strength slowly. but for the vast majority of people here, i think "dirty" bulking is the way to go and it's not as if you eat nothing but saturated fat...i still ate oatmeal all the time, plenty of omega3's etc.

na

I think I will be doing a hybrid of clean/dirty bulking as I want to keep a steady ratio of fat and muscle. Here is the kicker, I bet I could do it fast. For instance, me, who is currently doing 2200 calories, will be going to a 5000 calorie diet to do it crazy fast. The way that I would do it is with steel cut oats, protein powder, dextrose/other sugars, egg whites, tuna, fish oil/flax seed oil pills, no fruits, daily vitamins to make sure I got all of my stuff, cassein protein, skim milk instead of water on steel cut oats and a good 5 litres of water a day. You see, all you have to do is know some shit about insulin and how to use the bodie's most anabolic hormone. By adding dextrose to every meal, you make sure that your food is "absorbed faster". Holy shit I can't wait till I start my bulking phase.. sugar... that is one of the problems though, you get cravings.

dexterium I think I will be doing a hybrid of clean/dirty bulking as I want to keep a steady ratio of fat and muscle. Here is the kicker, I bet I could do it fast. For instance, me, who is currently doing 2200 calories, will be going to a 5000 calorie diet to do it crazy fast. The way that I would do it is with steel cut oats, protein powder, dextrose/other sugars, egg whites, tuna, fish oil/flax seed oil pills, no fruits, daily vitamins to make sure I got all of my stuff, cassein protein, skim milk instead of water on steel cut oats and a good 5 litres of water a day. You see, all you have to do is know some shit about insulin and how to use the bodie's most anabolic hormone. By adding dextrose to every meal, you make sure that your food is "absorbed faster". Holy shit I can't wait till I start my bulking phase.. sugar... that is one of the problems though, you get cravings. are you shitting me?

dexterium I think I will be doing a hybrid of clean/dirty bulking as I want to keep a steady ratio of fat and muscle. Here is the kicker, I bet I could do it fast. For instance, me, who is currently doing 2200 calories, will be going to a 5000 calorie diet to do it crazy fast. The way that I would do it is with steel cut oats, protein powder, dextrose/other sugars, egg whites, tuna, fish oil/flax seed oil pills, no fruits, daily vitamins to make sure I got all of my stuff, cassein protein, skim milk instead of water on steel cut oats and a good 5 litres of water a day. You see, all you have to do is know some shit about insulin and how to use the bodie's most anabolic hormone. By adding dextrose to every meal, you make sure that your food is "absorbed faster". Holy shit I can't wait till I start my bulking phase.. sugar... that is one of the problems though, you get cravings. Sugar to every meal and no fruits...let me know how that works out.

good point.

christophers ya, its up to you. however the person who gains mroe muscle/fat will pretty much always be the one to progress faster, especially if he lose fat fast ala werdna or the kid in our gym. also due to: more weight gain -> more strength -> more strength = more microtrauma = more muscle again, its individual.. but most people simply cannot think long term. its all short term. thats the biggest fault i see daily. shit I think my bodyfat varies with what I've eaten in the last 2 hours. no joke.

What are the advantages of clean bulking?